Bloomberg Tech 8/14/2026

>> "BLOOMBERG TECH" IS LIVE FROM THE HEART OF SILICON VALLEY, WITH ED LUDLOW IN SAN FRANCISCO. TIM: THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." I'M TIM STENOVEC, IN FOR ED LUDLOW. OPENAI IS ON TRACK TO GENERATE ANNUALIZED REVENUE OF MORE THAN $40 BILLION, ROUGHLY DOUBLING ITS RUN RATE AT THE END OF 2025. A NEW CITY BILL BACKED BY MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI CALLS FOR AMAZON TO DIRECTLY EMPLOY THEIR DELIVERY WORKERS. WHAT WILL AMAZON DO IF THE BILL PASSES? META'S FORMER CHIEF AI SCIENTIST IS JOINING A NEW VENTURE FIRM TO INVEST IN AI STARTUPS. WE WILL BE JOINED BY THE LEADER, SHAUN JOHNSON. OPENAI IS ON TRACK TO GENERATE PENALIZED REVENUE THAT HELPS $40 BILLION, DOUBLING ITS RUN RATE FROM THE END OF 2025. I WANT TO BRING IN RACHEL MATZ, WHO BROKE THE STORY. WHAT SPECIFIC PRODUCTS ARE DRIVING THIS ANNUALIZED REVENUE RUN RATE THAT IS SUCH A JUMP FROM LAST YEAR? RACHEL: ACCORDING TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD AND ARE REPORTING, IT IS A RANGE OF THINGS. THE COMPANY'S CONSUMER BUSINESS IS BY FAR HIS LARGEST BUSINESS AND EIGHT ANNOUNCED THEY PASS THIS $1 BILLION -- THIS ONE BILLION ACTIVE WEEKLY USER MARK, WHICH THEY'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR A LONG TIME. THEY HAVE A LOT MORE BUSINESSES USING IT. THIS IS DRIVEN IN SOME PART BY CODEX, IT'S CODING ASSISTANT. TIM: WE CANNOT TALK ABOUT OPENAI IN A VACUUM. WHAT ABOUT ANTHROPIC, ITS CHIEF RIFLE? RACHEL: THEY HAVE BEEN CONNECTING AWAY. I HATE TO SAY IT IS ONE VERSUS THE OTHER--THEY HAVE BEEN CAN INNOVATE. I HATE TO SAY IT IS ONE VERSUS THE OTHER, BUT ANTHROPIC HAS PROVED OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO THAT THEY ARE A HANDY RIVAL TO THIS COMPANY AND ESPECIALLY ON THE CODING FRONT THEY OUTPACED OPENAI. OPENAI'S SHOWING US REVENUE IS GOING UP AND CUSTOMERS ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR ITS PRODUCTS AS WELL. TIM: WE ARE TALKING TOPLINE HERE. TO BE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BOTTOM LINE AND WHAT EXPENSES ARE AND COST OF REVENUE AND WHAT IT IS SPENDING? RACHEL: WE ARE STILL LOOKING INTO THAT AS FAR AS SPECIFIC NUMBERS. BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW GENERALLY -- WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS SO MANY TIMES AND IT IS FRUSTRATING, BUT COMPUTE IS REALLY EXPENSIVE. IT COSTS A LOT. OPENAI HAS WORKED VERY HARD TO AMASS A WAR CHEST, ESSENTIALLY, OF COMPUTING POWER. IT HAS THAT AT ITS DISPOSAL. AND YET THE COMPANY WILL STILL SAY THAT ITS BIGGEST OBSTACLE IS GETTING ENOUGH COMPUTE. THAT IS GOING TO TAKE UP A HUGE CHUNK OF ANY REVENUE IT BRINGS IN. OTHER THAN THAT, THAT IS BY FAR ITS LARGEST EXPENSE. TIM: RACHEL MATZ OUT THERE ON THE WEST COAST. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE. WE WILL KEEP ASKING YOU THOSE QUESTIONS ABOUT TOP AND BOTTOM LINES AT THESE COMPANIES. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. STRATEGIST AT CITIGROUP AND BANK OF AMERICA OFFENDING THE CHIPS INDEX IS IN "BUBBLE LAND" AFTER IT ROSE TWO STANDARD DEVIATIONS OVER HIS REGULAR TERMS. EARLY WINNERS ARE NOT NECESSARILY WINNERS FOREVER, AND EARLY WINTER NVIDIA IS AT THE CENTER OF IT ALL. YOU TALK ABOUT THIS "DURATION MISMATCH" BETWEEN THE REALITIES OF AI INFRASTRUCTURE AND INVESTOR EXPECTATIONS. HOW DO YOU QUANTIFY THAT? >> WE ARE LOOKING AT QUARTER-T-QUARTER NUMBERS, AND PERHAPS THAT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIMEFRAME, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS WHAT WE ARE USED TO AS EQUITY INVESTORS. HYPERSCALERS AND SEMICONDUCTOR COMPANIES ARE TELLING US LOOK OUT TO 2027, 2028, 2029. THEY ARE ISSUING BONDS THAT GO ALL THE WAY TO 2066. I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 2026, BUT WE HAVE A MISMATCH AND EXPECTATIONS OF WHEN WE SEE RETURN ON THESE INVESTMENTS. THE REVENUE EXPECTATIONS THAT ARE BEING PROMISED YEARS OUT, THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MEET IT YEARS OUT. THAT TAKES A LOT OF INVESTMENT TODAY IN NUMBERS THAT WE ARE TOTALLY NOT USED TO. WE HAVE TO SORT OF ADJUST OUR EXPECTATIONS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE LONGER-TERM-FOCUSED THAT WE ARE TODAY. TIM: OK, BUT HOW LONGER TERM? WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MEMORY MAKERS, WE HEAR ABOUT 2030 OVER AND OVER AGAIN. VISIBILITY QUARTER TO QUARTER IS TOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND. HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE TO WAIT? ANNA: THAT IS THE UNCERTAINTY, AND THAT IS WHY YOU SEE THE VOLATILITY IN THE MARKETS, AND THAT IS BASICALLY INVESTORS EXPRESSING THE UNCERTAINTY. THE ANSWER IS WE DON'T REALLY KNOW. I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE THAT THE HYPERSCALERS KNOW EITHER. RIGHT NOW THEY ARE IN AN EXISTENTIAL RACE. LET'S CAPTURE THE FUTURE COMPUTE WE GET TO SELL BY BUILDING DATA CENTERS AND BUYING NVIDIA CHIPS AND PERHAPS MAKING OUR OWN CHIPS. THAT IS HOW THE INDUSTRY IS CHANGING AND FRANKLY, WE WILL HAVE TO SEE. TIM: A SORT OF FIELD OF DREAMS -- IF THEY BUILT IT, WE WILL C OME? ANNA: [LAUGHTER] MAYBE. TIM: THERE IS NO GUARANTEE ON THIS ROI. DO YOU BUY INTO THAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE ROI ON THIS? ANNA: I THINK THERE WILL BE ROI ON IT. THIS IS AN EXPECTATION WE HAVE MISPLACED, THE LEVEL OF COMPUTE. WE ARE USED TO LOOKING AT THE LAST 20 YEARS OF INTERNET AND CLOUD GROWTH, ETC. AT THE AI LEVEL, THE SOPHISTICATION OF THESE MODELS AND HOW MUCH COMPUTE IT TAKES, NOT TO THE MARKET HAS DIGESTED IT. THAT IS WHY THERE ISN'T A MUCH MONEY GOING INTO IT. I BELIEVE WE WILL SEE THE ROI. AS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, THE TIMING IS UNCERTAIN, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE TO TAKE A LONG-TERM VIEW. TIM: ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHT NAMES, THE KING AT THE RIGHT NAMES ON THE PUBLIC-- LOOKING AT THE RIGHT NAMES ON THE PUBLIC EQUITY SIDE? THERE THINKING ABOUT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT ARE THE COMPANIES WE SHOULD BE IN NOW. ANNA: I THINK THOSE ARE THE NAMES WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE SPEND IS COMING FROM, WHERE THE DEBT ISSUANCE IS COMING FROM. IF YOU ARE A PUBLIC MARKET INVESTOR, THOSE NAMES YOU DO HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO. WHAT WE HAVE DISCOVERED IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS IS THAT SOMETIMES NAMES COME UP OUT OF NOWHERE, OUT OF THE LEFT FIELD, IN TERMS OF BEING IN THE FRONT LINE OF AI UNTIL WE SEE THOSE NAMES, I THINK WE ARE FOCUSING ON THE NAMES THAT WE SEE TODAY. BUT WE DO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE RISKS. YOU MENTIONED NVIDIA EARLIER. IT WAS AN EARLY WINNER. NOW EVERYONE IS MAKING THEIR OWN CHIPS. COREWEAVE IS DEPENDENT ON NVIDIA. THEIR DEBT IS COLLATERALIZED BY NVIDIA CHIPS. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR NVIDIA? WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY, GIVE IT A SECOND LOOK, IN THE SAME NAMES THAT WE ALL TALK ABOUT TODAY. TIM: AUGUST 26 IS WHEN THEY ARE EXCITED TO REPORT THE MOST RECENT QUARTER. ANNA, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, YOU MENTIONED CIRCULAR FINANCING. INCREASINGLY WE ARE HEARING ABOUT CONCENTRATION RISKS AND WORRIES THAT HYPERSCALERS HAVE TWO CUSTOMERS, ANTHROPIC AND OPENAI. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON CONCENTRATION RISK? ANNA: CONCENTRATION RISK IS SOMETHING THAT THESE COMPANIES NEED TO WORK ON WE HEARD FROM'S REVERSE-- CEREBRUS SAYING THEY HAVE HUGE CONCENTRATION RISK, BUT THEY ARE NEW TO THE PUBLIC MARKETS. WE HAVE TO EXPECT THAT TO REDUCE THE RISK IF AT LEAST THEY WILL NOT TELL US WHEN WE GET THE ROI, TELL US THAT THEY ARE REDUCING THE RISK ON THE BUSINESS SIDE. TIM: WELL, I GUESS THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE HIS WHO WOULD TAKE THE PLACE OF THOSE LARGE CUSTOMERS AT THIS POINT. WHO ELSE IS OUT THERE? ANNA: THAT IS THE CONUNDRUM OF CIRCULAR FINANCING, BECAUSE IT TAKES SO MUCH CAPITAL AND SIZE IN ORDER TO BUILD THIS AI ECOSYSTEM THAT THERE ARE FEW PLAYERS. AND SO, I MEAN, I THINK WE WILL SEE IN ABOUT A YEAR OR 2 -- WE HAD THE HYPERSCALERS TRYING TO REDUCE THEIR DEPENDENCE ON THE NUMBER ONE SUPPLIER. I THINK THE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO MAKE THOSE INNOVATIVE CHANGES TO THE BUSINESS MODEL. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS ALSO WAIT AND SEE BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE AI ECOSYSTEM AND HOW MUCH MONEY IT TAKES TO BUILD IT OUT. TIM: ANNA RATHBUN OF GRENADILLA ADVISORY JOINING US ON "BLOOMBERG TECH," THANKS SO MUCH, DO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. APPLIED MATERIALS BEATS EXPECTATIONS. INVESTORS ARE NOT SO IMPRESSED. SHARES DOWN 4.6%. WE WILL BREAK DOWN THE CHIP EQUIPMENT GIANT'S OUTLOOK NEXT. I'M WATCHING SHARES OF BROADCOM. SHARES OF BROADCOM DOWN THIS MORNING, DRAGGING THE S&P 500 LOWER, FOLLOWING A REPORT THAT VMWARE SECURITY VULNERABILITY IS BEING ACTIVELY EXPLOITED ACROSS SEVERAL COUNTRIES. BROADCOM SHARES DOWN 5.3%. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪ TIM: AMD HAS RAISED $4.75 MILLION IN ITS BIGGEST EVER BIGGEST EVER DOLLAR BOND SALE. DEMAND FOR CAPACITY SURGES. 875 NEWLY DOLLARS IN BONDS DUE NEXT MONTH. APPLIED MATERIALS DELIVERED A BETTER-THAN-EXPECTED FORECAST. INVESTORS HARD TO IMPRESS. IT IS THE BIGGEST U.S. CHIPMAKER OF EQUIPMENT AND SAYS CUSTOMERS ARE PUSHING IT TO RAMP UP PRODUCTION EVEN FASTER. IAN KING COVERS ALL THINGS SEMICONDUCTORS AND JOINS US NOW. SHARES WERE UP 108% GOING INTO THE PRINT YESTERDAY. EXPECTATIONS, FAIR TO SAY, WERE PRETTY HIGH. LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD PRINT ACROSS THE BOARD. WHAT ARE INVESTORS UPSET ABOUT? IAN: WHAT THEY ARE UPSET ABOUT ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR ISN'T VERY CLEAR. THE NUMBERS ARE CLEAN. WHAT WE HAVE GOT IS ANOTHER CASE OF A COMPANY COMES OUT AND SAYS, HEY, GUESS WHAT, OUR EARNINGS ARE GOING TO BE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BETTER THAN YOU EXPECTED, AND THE REACTION THEY GET IS, YEAH, GREAT, WE KNOW THAT, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR US NEXT. A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION ON THE CALL WAS NEXT YEAR. TIM: THE QUESTION A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE IS THAT THIS FIRM IS SOMEWHAT A BAROMETER FOR THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT VISIBILITY THAT WE GOT FROM APPLIED MATERIALS INTO WHAT THE REST OF THE YEAR AND NEXT YEAR LOOKS LIKE? IAN: YEAH, NO, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, AND ONE OF THE REASONS YOU WOULD CONCENTRATE ON A COMPANY THAT DOES SOMETHING ESOTERIC. WHAT THE CEO TOLD US IN THE CONVERSATION AFTER THE NUMBERS HIT WAS, LOOK, I'VE GOT 8 QUARTERS OF GUIDANCE FROM MY CUSTOMERS BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG TO MAKE THIS EQUIPMENT, TO THEN SHIP IT, TO THEN INSTALL IT AND GET IT UP AND RUNNING IN THESE FACTORIES. WE HAVE TO PLAN OVER THE HORIZON, AND GUESS WHAT, THEY ARE GIVING ME EVEN MORE VISIBILITY THAN THEY NORMALLY WOULD. HE IS SAYING NEXT YEAR THINGS ARE GOING TO BE BETTER. THE CALL WAS ABOUT HOW MUCH BETTER, TELL US EXACTLY HOW MUCH BETTER. HE IS SAYING, LOOK, A LOT BETTER. [LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW WHAT MORE OF A CONVERSATION YOU COULD HAVE AS A MANAGEMENT TEAM AT THIS POINT. TIM: BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME, COVERING THESE TYPES OF COMPANIES A LONG TIME THROUGH DIFFERENT CYCLES. CONTEXTUALIZE THE MOMENT FOR US. HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS? IAN: NEVER. THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE SORT OF GETTING IN FRONT OF OURSELVES AND PROJECTING GROWTH, WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS WE HAVE SEEN UPS AND DOWNS BEFORE, BUT NEVER ANYTHING TO THIS EXTENT. TIM: IAN KING, ALWAYS GOOD TO CHAT WITH YOU, THANKS FOR GETTING UP EARLY. IAN IN OUR SAN FRANCISCO BUREAU. A CHINESE AI FIRM IS UPDATING ITS FLESH OF MODELS AS IT LOOKS TO CLOSE THE GAP WITH OPENAI AND ANTHROPIC. GLM 5.3 WILL FOCUS ON STRONGER CODING CAPABILITIES AND STRONGER PERFORMANCE GAINS OVER ITS PREVIOUS MODEL. THE COMPANY PLANS TO RELEASE THE NEW LLM WITHIN TWO WEEKS, ALLOWING DEVELOPERS TO DOWNLOAD AND CUSTOMIZE IT. STANFORD'S AI INDEX SHOWS A STRIKING DIVIDE IN COULD CHINA'S ENTHUSIASM GIVE ITS AI INDUSTRY AND EDGE -- AN EDGE? >> THE INDEX SHOWS MORE THAN 80% OF CHINESE ARE OPTIMISTIC ON AI AND 40% IN THE U.S.. THERE IS A SIMILAR TREND THAT MORE THAN 70% OF CHINESE TRUST AI COMPARED TO LESS THAN 30% IN THE U.S.. WHY IS THAT SUCH A HUGE GOLF IN ATTITUDES -- H UGE GULF? ONE COULD BE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE EXPERIENCE OF TECHNOLOGY. PEOPLE'S EXTREMES OF TECH IS ONE OF EMPOWERMENT IN TRANSPORTATION. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MORE RESIDENTS BEING ABLE TO SELL GOODS THROUGH E-COMMERCE CHANNELS, EXPERIENCING THE CONVENIENCE OF DOOR-TO-DOOR DELIVERY AND CHEAP, EFFICIENT LOGISTICS. IN THE U.S., PEOPLE HAVE RELIABLE MAIL AND BIG BOX RETAIL. THE EXPERIENCE OF THE TECH EXPLOSION HAS BEEN ONE OF ADDICTION, OVERCONCENTRATION OF POWER IN BIG TECH. THE OTHER CONCERN IS AROUND WHETHER ENOUGH GUARDRAILS HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE. IN CHINA, THEY ARE CONSTANTLY WORRIED ABOUT PIPE DOWNS. TECH BROS WERE PLEDGING TO SUPPORT IT. IN THE U.S., IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY WITH A REVOLVING DOOR WITH POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS WITH BILLIONS BEING POURED INTO LOBBYING. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH TRUST THE GOVERNMENT IS PROTECTING THE INTERESTS OF RESIDENTS. WHY DOES THIS MATTER? WHEN PEOPLE ARE MORE WILLING TO TRY NEW TECHNOLOGY, THAT MEANS THE MARKET ADOPTION RATE CAN BE MUCH FASTER. WHILE CHINA LAGS IN SOME FOUNDATIONAL TECHNOLOGY LIKE CHIPS AND HARDWARE, CHINESE FIRMS COULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE IN HAVING MORE FERTILE TO TEST NEW PRODUCTS AND ALLOW MUCH FASTER ADOPTION OF NEW AI PRODUCTS. BLOOMBERG NEWS, HONG KONG. TIM: BREAKING NEWS CROSSING THE BLOOMBERG TERMINAL. LOUISE MANGIONE -- LUIGI MANGIONE TO PLEAD GUILTY TO CHARGES ACCORDING TO HIS LAWYER. WE WILL CONTINUE TO BRING YOU UPDATES ON THE STORY AS IT CONTINUES TO BREAK. DEEPSEEK IS SHARPLY RAISING PRICES FOR ITS FLAGSHIP MODELS. PEAK HOUR RATES WILL MORE THAN QUADRUPLE STARTING AUGUST 16 PREPARING FOR A POTENTIAL IPO AND PUTTING GREATER FOCUS ON PROFITABILITY. DEEPSEEK SAYS IT'S MODELS REMAIN SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER THAN MAJOR RIVALS. COMING UP, HOW CLOSE ARE WE REALLY TO A WORLD FULL OF HUMANOID ROBOTS? WE HAVE ANSWERS NEXT. THIS IS BLOOMBERG. ♪ TIM: THE PROMISE OF EMBODIED AI, THINK HUMANOID ROBOTS TO AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES, SEEMS TO BE INCREASINGLY ENTERING THE REAL WORLD. BLOOMBERG SPOKE WITH DEEPMIND ABOUT WHETHER IT IS FINALLY HAVING ITS CHATGPT MOMENT. >> NOT YET BUT YOU CAN SEE IT. IN MY OPINION, THE CHATGPT MOMENT FOR ROBOTICS WOULD BE WHERE EVERYONE CAN EXPERIENCE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO INTERACT WITH A ROBOT AND THE ROBOT RESPONDS TO WHAT YOU WANT AND DOES WHAT YOU WANT IN A COMPLETELY NEW ENVIRONMENT OR SETTING. THAT IS WHAT IT MEANS TO ME. I DON'T THINK WE ARE THERE YET BUT WE ARE GETTING THERE. >> WHAT GETS US THERE? WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS THAT NEED TO BE OVERCOME TO GET TO THAT POINT? >> OUR GOAL IS TO BUILD THE INTELLIGENCE LAYER THAT WILL POWER ANY ROBOT AND MAKE IT REALLY INTELLIGENT SO IT IS EASY FOR HUMANS TO USE TO DO TASKS TO MAKE THE ROBOT SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE ENVIRONMENT AND TAKE ACTION TO COMPLETE THE NEW TASK YOU MAY HAVE ASKED IT TO DO. THERE HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS OVER THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS. BEFORE, ROBOTS DID NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT AN OBJECT WAS. THEY WERE JUST CPU, POINTS IN SPACE WITHOUT MEANING. WE HAVE INTRODUCED LLM'S TO ROBOTS THAT TAUGHT THEM TO UNDERSTAND NATURAL LANGUAGE AND REASON ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND HOW TO TAKE ACTION FOR A PARTICULAR MEANINGFUL TASK. THAT DID NOT EXIST BEFORE. >> HUMANOIDS GET A LOT OF HEADLINES, A LOT OF BUZZ. DO YOU THINK THAT IS DISTRACTING? DO YOU THINK WE ARE OVERLY OBSESSED WITH HUMANOIDS? >> GREAT QUESTION. WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THERE WILL BE MANY DIFFERENT ROBOT TYPES. I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT OF TASKS WHERE NOT A HUMANOID IS THE RIGHT THING. I THINK HUMANOIDS WILL BE AN IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR A FEW REASONS. FIRST, I THINK THE WORLD IS MADE FOR HUMANS. IF YOU WANT TO IMMEDIATELY DEPLOY A ROBOT IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS HUMAN-CENTRIC, IT WILL BE AN EASY ONE TO DEPLOY. IF WE WANT ROBOTS TO LEARN FROM HUMANS AND IT HAS A HUMAN FORM, IT IS EASIER. IT CAN TRANSLATE COOKING INTO THE SAME TASK. THAT IS A LEARNING PERSPECTIVE I FIND INTERESTING. MY GOAL IS TO SHOW THAT WE CAN GET TO AGI IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. IT MEANS THE ROBOT CAN DO ANYTHING A HUMAN CAN. I FEEL HUMANOIDS WILL ENABLE US TO SHOW AND BELIEVE WE HAVE GOTTEN TO THAT LEVEL. THAT IS ANOTHER REASON WHY I LIKE IT. WE ARE INTERESTED IN ENABLING INTELLIGENCE TO ALL ROBOTS. TIM: THAT WAS GOOGLE DEEPMIND'S CAROLINA PARADA SPEAKING TO BLOOMBERG'S TOM MACKENZIE. TOM LOOKS INTO WHETHER WE ARE ON THE CUSP OF A ROBOT REALITY. YOU CAN FIND IT ON YOUTUBE AND BLOOMBERG.COM. LET'S LOOK AT MORE TECH STORIES WITH YAHAIRA ANAND. YAHAIRA: IT IS TIME FOR TALKING TECH. FRANCE'S HIGHEST COURT BLOCK A BAND ON SOCIAL MEDIA FOR CHILDREN CALLING THE RULING UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR HARMING FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND COMMUNICATION. IT SHOWS HOW GLOBAL EFFORTS TO BAN KIDS FROM SOCIAL MEDIA ARE CRASHING INTO MAJOR LEGAL ROADBLOCKS. NINTENDO CLIMBS AS MUCH AS 7.5% IN TOKYO FOLLOWING THE SUCCESS OF THE HIT GAME. THE NINTENDO SWITCH GAME'S GLOBAL SALES TOPPED 5 MILLION UNITS SINCE IT LAUNCHED IN MARCH. CHAIRS ARE ON COURSE FOR THE THIRD WEEKLY GAIN, THE LARGEST -- LONGEST WINNING STREAK SINCE NOVEMBER. A JUDGE ORDERED KALSHI TO STOP OFFERING SOME WAGERS IN WASHINGTON STATE AFTER REGULATORS SAID THE PREDICTION MARKETS APP LIKELY CONSTITUTED AN ILLEGAL GAMBLING OPERATION. THE KALSHI HEADS SPOKE ON " BLOOMBERG SURVEILLANCE" TODAY. >> THE EXCHANGE MODEL OPERATES DIFFERENTLY FROM A SPORTSBOOK. A SPORTSBOOK PROFITS EVERY TIME SOMEONE WALKS IN AND PUTS UP MONEY. IF THEY LOSE, THE SPORTSBOOK WINS ALL THE MONEY. AN EXCHANGE MODEL IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. USERS ARE SETTING THE PRICE AMONGST EACH OTHER AND THE ORDER BOOK IS OPEN, IMPARTIAL,, FAIR, AND AVAILABLE NATIONWIDE. OPERATING AN EXCHANGE THAT FITS THAT FRAMEWORK REQUIRES FEDERAL REGULATION. TIM: COMING UP, KATE JOINS US TO DISCUSS NEW YORK'S BATTLE WITH AMAZON OVER ITS DELIVERY WORKERS. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." I AM ALSO WATCHING SHARES OF MICRON AND SANDISK AS WE SPEAK. SHARES OF MICRON ARE HIGHER. ONE ANALYST UPGRADING THE STOCK TO BUY FROM NEUTRAL. HE WRITES THAT IT IS ATTRACTIVELY VALUED BASED ON A METRIC OF PRICE TO SHARES SOLD. STILL UP 1.3%. SANDISK ALSO SURGING TODAY UP CLOSE TO 6%. TAKE SURGING WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. SHARES ARE UP THIS YEAR CLOSE TO 600%. UP 5.8% RIGHT NOW. SHARES SURGED 14% YESTERDAY. WE ARE TALKING AMAZON AND WE ARE TALKING LABOR, PACIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THOSE PACKAGES GET TO PEOPLE -- SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THOSE PACKAGES GET TO PEOPLE IN NEW YORK CITY. THAT IS NEXT ON "BLOOMBERG TECH." >> WELCOME BACK TO "BLOOMBERG TECH." IT'S TAKEN LOOK AT THE NASDAQ THIS WEEK. THE S&P 500 HIT A NEW ALL-TIME HIGH. THE NASDAQ UNDERPERFORMING. AT LEAST THE RECENT HIGH OF THE S&P 500. THE DECLINE IN RETAIL SALES THAT WE GOT THIS MORNING MEANS THAT BETS ARE INCREASING THAT THE FED IS GOING TO HOLD RATES IN SEPTEMBER, MEANING, NOT CAN HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT POLICY MEETING BUT AT LEAST FOR NOW, THERE'S LESS OF A RISK THAT THE FED ACTUALLY RAISES RATES. WE CAN HEAR WHAT CHAIR WARSH SAYS AT JACKSON HOLE AND LITTLE LATER THIS MONTH. A NEW BILL BACKED BY A SORE ON MAMDANI THREATENS AMAZON'S CHIEF DELIVERY MODEL. IF THE DELIVERY PROTECTION ACT PASSES, THE COMMERCE GIANT MAY MAKE ALL NEW YORK CITY DELIVERIES FROM HUBS OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS. BUT SPENCER WRITES PROPONENTS OF THE BILL SAY AMAZON CAN'T ABANDON THE CITY BECAUSE THAT WOULD LENGTHEN DELIVERY TIMES WHICH IT IS PERPETUALLY TRYING TO SHORTEN. WE ARE NOW JOINED BY KATE TO HELP US MAKE SENSE OF IT ALL. I JUST WANT TO START WITH THE WAY THAT TRADITIONALLY, DELIVERY COMPANIES HAVE INVOLVED HUMANS IN THAT LAST MILE. WHAT HAVE THEY DONE IN TERMS OF A STRUCTURE TO EMPLOY THEM OR NOT DIRECTLY EMPLOY THEM? >> SO DELIVERY SERVICE MODEL IS ONE WHERE THE COMPANIES TRY TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FROM THE WORKERS AND THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WORKERS AND THE LIABILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE DELIVERY DRIVERS AND THE VANS. IT ALLOWS THEM TO EXPLOIT THE WORKERS AND DENY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ACCIDENTS, TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, WORKER HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES AND TO PAY WORKERS LOWER WAGES AND LOWER BENEFITS THAN THEY OTHERWISE WOULD. >> THIS IS DISTINCTIVE FROM UPS WHICH IS KNOWN FOR HAVING A STRONG UNION AND DIRECTLY EMPLOYING THOSE UPS DRIVERS AND UPS DELIVERY WORKERS, CORRECT? >> EXACTLY. THESE COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO SAY THEY ARE NOT JOINT EMPLOYERS, THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. THEY CAN'T BE UNIONIZED. VERY DIFFERENT FROM UPS, AND MUCH, MUCH MORE DANGEROUS WORKING CONDITIONS AND MUCH LESS LIABILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE SERVICE PROVIDERS. >> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS DELIVERY PROTECTION ACT. THE FOLKS WHO SAY IF THIS PASSES, THEN AMAZON HAS TO DIRECTLY EMPLOY DELIVERY WORKERS WHO DELIVER PACKAGES WITHIN THE CITY, THAT AMAZON IS NOT GOING TO JUST MOVE TOWN OVER TO NEW JERSEY OR SOMETHING AND EMPLOY WORKERS THEY ARE ORBIT DELIVERIES MADE FROM THERE. IS THAT A REALISTIC CONCERN, THAT THE CITY SHOULD HAVE? >> FIRST OF ALL, THAT IS A CHOICE THAT AMAZON WOULD MAKE. OBVIOUSLY AMAZON IS MAKING HUGE PROFITS. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST PROFITABLE COMPANIES IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. THEY CAN DEFINITELY AFFORD TO DO BETTER BY THEIR WORKERS. AND THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO GET THINGS TO PEOPLE FASTER AND FASTER. SAME-DAY DELIVERY. IT IS NOT IN THEIR INTEREST TO MOVE OUTSIDE THE CITY, AND THE AMOUNT OF EXTRA MONEY IT IS GOING TO COST THEM IS JUST A TINY FRACTION OF THE AMOUNT OF PROFIT, BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROFIT. >> DO YOU THINK THE DELIVERY PROTECTION ACT IS THE RIGHT APPROACH TO THIS? >> AT THIS TIME -- IN A TIME YOU CAN RELY ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LESS AND LESS, MANY ORGANIZATIONS ARE TURNING TO STATES AND CITIES IN ORDER TO PROVIDE A REGULATION THAT OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NO LONGER PROVIDING. THERE HAS BEEN A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF ACCIDENTS. THERE ARE 18 AND THE NEW YORK CITY AREA, AND 78% OF THE COMMUNITIES, ACTS OF CRASHES WITH INJURIES HAVE RISEN. THESE ARE SERIOUS ACCIDENTS. WORKER SAFETY HAS GONE DOWN, WORKER PAY AND BENEFITS HAVE GONE DOWN. THE CITY OF NEW YORK IS COMMITTED TO IMPROVING THE STATUS OF THE WORKING CLASS AND THE CITY, MAMDANI HAS MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. BUT NEW YORK IS NOT ALONE. CITIES AND STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE REALIZING THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE OVER WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DID IN THE PAST. >> I'M COMING TO YOU FROM NEW YORK. THE SCALE YEAR OF THE PACKAGE DELIVERY IS ACTUALLY COMPLETELY UNBELIEVABLE. OUR COLLEAGUE SPENCER IN HIS NEWSLETTER WRITES ABOUT 2.5 MILLION PACKAGES DELIVERED EVERY SINGLE DAY IN NEW YORK CITY. SO ABOUT ONE THIRD OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE ARE GETTING A PACKAGE EACH DAY. YOU CAN SEE THESE TRUCKS OUTSIDE OF OUR OFFICE HERE AND THEY ARE JUST LOADED, THE ENTIRE TRACTOR-TRAILER IS LOADED WITH PACKAGES TO BE DELIVERED. AND THAT IS JUST IN MIDTOWN. I'M WONDERING ABOUT COMPANIES THAT ARE NOT AMAZON HERE. OBVIOUSLY AMAZON IS THE GORILLA IN THE ROOM, BUT A LOT OF THINGS COME FROM OTHER COMPANIES. WOULD THIS AFFECT OTHER COMPANIES? >> RIGHT NOW, AMAZON KIND OF SETS THE STANDARD BECAUSE IT IS SO BIG. SO WHAT IT DOES, EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO DO. IF AMAZON HAS TO TREAT WORKERS BETTER, IT WILL MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE OTHER COMPANIES TO BE COMPETITIVE. LIKE ALL THE COMPANIES NOW, AMAZON IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET LICENSED BY THE CONSUMER MARKET PROTECTION BUREAU WHICH IS GOING TO TRACK LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT VIOLATIONS. AND CONSUMER VIOLATIONS. SO IF COMPANIES DO RIGHT AND FOLLOW THE LAW, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GET LICENSED TO REGULATE. AMAZON WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE AN OUTLAW JUST IGNORING EVERY REGULATION AS IT HAS IN THE PAST. >> I UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF THE DELIVERY SERVICE PARTNERS, WHY MAYBE THE BENEFITS WOULDN'T BE AS GOOD AS OPPOSED TO WORKING DIRECTLY FOR AMAZON, BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY CONDITIONS WILL BE SAFER FOR THEM AND WHY YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE FEWER ACCIDENTS IF THEY WERE APPOINTED DIRECTLY BY A BIG COMPANY? >> BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THAT THEY COMPANIES ARE NOT LIABLE. EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW THAT THOSE DRIVERS WORK FOR AMAZON, THEY ARE WEARING AMAZON UNIFORMS, THE HIRING IS OVERSEEN BY AMAZON, THE HOURS ARE OVERSEEN BY AMAZON, BUT AMAZON RIGHT NOW DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY IF THERE IS AN ACCIDENT OR IF THERE DRIVERS ARE BEING PRESSURED ON PRODUCTIVITY SO THAT THEY HAVE TO DRIVE SO FAST THAT THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW. BUT IF AMAZON IS THEN RESPONSIBLE AND CAN'T GET A LICENSE RENEWED TO BE A DELIVERY PROVIDER, IT'S GOING TO MAKE CONDITIONS SAFER, CONSUMERS MORE PROTECTED AND ENFORCE THE LAWS OF THE CITIES WHEN IT COMES TO TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS. >> APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON. THIS MORNING, I SHOULD SAY. APPRECIATE IT. SHARES OF REDDIT ARE SURGING THIS MORNING, UP 14%. THIS AFTER THE COMPANY WE LEARNED YESTERDAY IS SET TO JOIN THE S&P 500. LOOK AT THAT. IT'S GOING TO REPLACE OTHER COMMUNITIES. NOW PASSIVE INVESTMENT FUNDS HAVE TO BUY SHARES OF REDDIT. THAT'S WHY INCLUSION THESE DAYS IN AN INCREASINGLY PASSIVE WORLD IS JUST BECOMING MORE AND MORE IMPORTANT FOR COMPANIES. SHARES DOWN BY ABOUT 20%. COMING UP, SHAWN JOHNSON JOINS US, GENERAL PARTNER. HE IS GOING TO TALK TO US ABOUT LAUNCHING A NEW FIRM OF AI HEAVYWEIGHTS. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG THREAD CAPITALISTS IN A MASSIVE PAYOFF FROM ITS EARLY BET ON AI. JOSH KUSHNER'S VENTURE FUND HAS GROWN, FUELED BY INVESTMENTS IN COMPANIES INCLUDING OPENAI, SPACEX AND ANDURIL. DOES THIS ANSWER SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHERE MONEY COMES FROM TO BUY THE LAKERS? I DON'T KNOW. >> WE WILL SEE. BUT THE NEWS THAT WE BROKE LAST NIGHT GIVES US AN ANSWER ON WHY THRIVE'S APPROACH FOR CONCENTRATION IN THE TOP POSITIONS IN ITS PORTFOLIO IS DEFINITELY MAKING A DIFFERENCE. LIKE YOU SAID, THE 2022 FUND IS UP ABOUT SEVEN TIMES FROM JUST A FEW YEARS AGO. FIRMS TAKE BETWEEN -- ED: IT'S A GREAT STORY. UNFORTUNATELY OUR HAVING SOME PROBLEMS. CONGRATULATIONS ON THE SCOOP. CHECK IT OUT ON THE BLOOMBERG TERMINAL. STICKING WITH AI AND VENTURE CAPITAL, 224 VENTURES IS A NEW AI NATIVE VENTURE FIRM LAUNCHED BY SHAWN JOHNSON. THE TRIO PLANS TO MAKE STAGE BETS AND LUNCHES WITH MORE THAN 100 MILLION THAT IS IN ASKED -- $100 MILLION IN ASSETS UNDER MANAGEMENT. GOOD TO HAVE YOU, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS NEWS. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE AT THE WHITE SPACE OUT THERE IN SILICON VALLEY AND REALLY, THE WORLD WHEN IT COMES TO THESE AI BETS. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT? >> WHITE SPACE IS HARDER AND HARDER TO FIND I THINK SINCE 2022. WE'VE BEEN OPERATING IN A FAIRLY NOISY MARKET. WHAT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT IS WHAT STORIES DEFENDERS COME WITH THAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE ARE NOT OBVIOUS, THAT WE WALK AWAY THINKING MAYBE THAT IS NOT RIGHT, BUT THEN AFTER THINKING ABOUT IT OR GETTING TO KNOW THE FOUNDER, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE A SERIES OF THINGS THAT COULD BE PROVEN TO BE TRUE THAT WE CHANGE THE WORLD, AND MAKE THAT COMPANY A MARKET LEADER? >> SO MUCH OF THE OXYGEN AT LEAST IN WHAT WE TALK ABOUT WITH THE MASSIVE VALUATIONS FOR OPENAI AND ANTHROPIC, IT IS SUCKED UP BY THAT. WEDNESDAY NIGHT, OUR BLOOMBERG TEAM HAD A SCOOP ABOUT ANTHROPIC MAKING AN ACQUISITION. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE INDUSTRY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT DOES BUT IT WAS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE MASSIVE MARKET, EVEN AT A LEVEL WITH A COMPANY WORTH LIKE $1 TRILLION IN THE PRIVATE MARKET RIGHT NOW. I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU SEE AS THE OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE. WHAT EXISTS IN TERMS OF TECH, IN YOUR VIEW, THAT IN FIVE OR 10 YEARS WILL BECOME THE NEXT OPENAI OR ANTHROPIC? SHAUN: THERE IS A MASSIVE OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE. WE ARE JUST GETTING STARTED. TO DATE, WE HAVE BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT CHATBOTS. HOW WE THINK ABOUT AI ACTUALLY DOING JOBS THEMSELVES AND HAVING HUMANS, WORKERS, TO SAY YES, THAT IS RIGHT, NO, THAT IS INCORRECT. THIS IS THE VERY BEGINNING OF THAT. ROBOTICS HAS BOTH CONSUMER AND BUSINESS APPLICATIONS. BUSINESS IS WONDERFULLY FRAGMENTED. THERE IS A TON OF WHITESPACE THERE. AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT AGENTS WILL NEED TO DO TO BE PRODUCTIVE ACROSS APPLICATIONS, THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS JUST STARTING TO BE BUILT OUT. TIM: ARE WE HAVING THE RIGHT CONVERSATION WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS IDEA OF A ZERO-SUM GAME WHEN IT COMES TO PRODUCTIVITY? SOME PEOPLE WILL BECOME MORE PRODUCTIVE. OTHERS WILL BE COMPLETELY REPLACED. FROM YOUR PERCH AS A VENTURE CAPITALIST WHO LOOKS INTO THIS, IS THAT THE RIGHT CONVERSATION TO BE HAVING? SHAUN: WE BELIEVE IT IS NOT A ZERO-SUM GAME. AS INTELLIGENCE PROLIFERATES THROUGH THESE APPLICATIONS, IT IS JUST THE NATURE OF OUR LABOR IS GOING TO CHANGE. THERE WILL BE MANY MORE JOBS. THEY WILL BE DIFFERENT. THEY WILL BE HIGHER LEVERAGED AND MORE ENGAGING. WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THE FUTURE WHERE AI IS TAKING AWAY THE MORE MUNDANE JOBS HUMANS ARE DOING TODAY AND LEVELS US ALL UP. TIM: YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT A WIPEOUT OF WHITE-COLLAR JOBS LIKE DARIO AMODEI HAS TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST? SHAUN: THERE WILL CERTAINLY BE A SHIFT IN JOBS. THERE ARE GOING TO BE A MOVEMENT FROM THE MORE ENGAGED TO THE LESS ENGAGED. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RESKILL AND THINK ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS FOR A LARGE NUMBER OF WORKERS. THERE ARE GOING TO BE ADDITIONAL JOBS, TOO. THE BIG QUESTION IS HOW WE NAVIGATE THE TRANSITION. TIM: A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUNDRAISING PROCESS AND YOUR PARTNERS AT THE FIRM. I WANT TO START WITH FUNDRAISING. YOU ARE LAUNCHING WITH $100 MILLION. HOW DIFFICULT OR EASY WAS IT TO RAISE THAT? I KNOW IT IS NEVER EASY TO RAISE MONEY. IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO INVEST IN EARLY-STAGE SILICON VALLEY RIGHT NOW. SHAUN: WE RAISED THAT CAPITAL IN JUST TWO MONTHS. TIM: SO, EASY. WHAT IS THE FUTURE CAPITAL RAISE SCHEDULE LOOKING LIKE? SHAUN: WE THINK THE MARKETS BARBELL. YOU SEE COMPANIES RAISING BILLIONS TO START AND YOU ALSO HAVE COMPANIES RAISING JUST A FEW MILLION TO START. WE HAVE A STRATEGY THAT ALLOWS US TO INVEST IN BOTH. ON THE MORE FRONTIER SIDE, WE WILL CONTINUOUSLY RAISE DOING SPV'S AND & CO. INVESTING AND WE HAVE AN EARLY STAGE FUND THAT ALLOWS US TO INVEST IN FOUNDERS JUST GETTING STARTED THAT ARE MORE CAPITAL EFFICIENT. TIM: WHERE ARE YOU LOOKING GEOGRAPHICALLY? SHAUN: PREDOMINANTLY SILICON VALLEY, NEW YORK, TORONTO, PARIS, LONDON, TEL AVIV ARE ALL INTERESTING HOTSPOTS FOR AI. TIM: IS THERE NO QUESTION SAN FRANCISCO IS THE LEADER RIGHT NOW? SHAUN: THERE IS NO QUESTION. TIM: WHAT ABOUT VERSUS CHINA AND THE TECH WE SEE COMING OUT OF CHINA? SHAUN: IT IS ARGUABLY WHY WE CONTINUE TO SEE SUCH MASSIVE RAISES, SO MUCH CAPITAL COME INTO THE ECOSYSTEM. THERE ARE MANY GEOPOLITICAL QUESTIONS AND ISSUES WE ARE GRAPPLING WITH AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY MINDFUL ABOUT ENABLING RESEARCHERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES TO PUSH THE FRONTIER TO KEEP THE UNITED STATES AT THE BLEEDING EDGE AS A TOP PRIORITY. TIM: YOU ARE LAUNCHING THIS WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER HUGE NAMES. A FORMER GOOGLE DEEPMIND RESEARCHER AND JAN. WHAT DO THEY BRING TO THE TABLE AND THINKING ABOUT WHERE TO INVEST? SHAUN: AT THE EARLY-STAGE, NUMBER ONE IS COMMUNITY AND ACCESS. WHO DO WE KNOW? WHO CAN WE INTERACT WITH AT DAY ZERO JUST STARTING TO FORMULATE AN IDEA? THEY ARE EMBEDDED IN THE ECOSYSTEM. THEY ARE WONDERFULLY CONNECTED. DARIO YOU BROUGHT UP AT ANTHROPIC SPENT TIME AT DEEPMIND. THE PERPLEXITY TEAM CAME OUT OF NYU. YOU ARE LOOKING FOR WONDERFULLY CONNECTED INVESTORS, PARTNERS. JAN AND ORIOLE ARE JUST THAT. TIM: SHAUN JOHNSON JOINING US OUT THERE IN SILICON VALLEY. CONGRATS AND THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "BLOOMBERG TECH." I WANT TO GET BACK TO MORE BREAKING NEWS. LUIGI MANGIONE HAS FORMALLY PLEADED GUILTY TO U.S. FEDERAL CHARGES. HIS SENTENCING DATE NOW SET FOR DECEMBER 18. THIS NEWS COMES AS A HEARING IS UNDERWAY TODAY WITH THE U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE WHICH WAS SET AFTER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS AND DEFENSE LAWYERS JOINED A REQUESTED ONE. THE GUILTY PLEA IS THE FIRST ADMISSION OF WRONGDOING BY LUISI MUSEUM -- LUIGI MANGIONE. COMING UP, THE BUSINESS IS SHUTTING DOWN HIGHLIGHTING THE CHALLENGES WHEN EXPANDING BEYOND CONTENT CREATION. WE HAVE THAT STORY NEXT. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." TIM: ALEX COOPER'S BEVERAGE BUSINESS IS SHUTTING DOWN. IT WAS LAUNCHED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH NESTLÉ LAST YEAR AND WILL CEASE PRODUCTION IN THE FALL ACCORDING TO SOURCES. IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF UNWELL RAISING MONEY TO SUPPORT SOME OF COOPER'S OTHER BUSINESS LINES BEYOND PODCASTING. LET'S GET MORE WITH ASHLEY HARMON WHO JOINS US IN NEW YORK. I AM A LITTLE OUT OF THE LOOP WITH PODCASTING ON THE BEVERAGE SIDE. THIS WAS LAUNCHED TO A LOT OF FANFARE AND SHE HAD A GOOD REASON TO LAUNCH IT. SHE SAID YOU DIDN'T SEE THE MARKET CATERING TO WOMEN. WHAT HAPPENED? ASHLEY: SHE WANTED TO DESIGN DRINKS FOR GEN Z WOMEN. THE REALITY IS THE BEVERAGE BUSINESS IS WILDLY COMPETITIVE. PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO BREAK INTO THAT BUSINESS. IT IS HARD. YOU HAVE TO CONSTANTLY REMIND PEOPLE TO KEEP BUYING YOUR BEVERAGE. IF THEY ARE NOT DOING IT, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS. TIM: THIS IS PART OF ALEX COOPER'S STORY AND UNWELL. THE BIGGER CONTEXT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES AT THE COMPANY. ASHLEY: THERE HAS BEEN A LOT GOING ON THIS YEAR. THIS WEEK, THEY WE LEARNED THEY RAISED MONEY AT A $5 BILLION VALUATION FOR THE LARGER COMPANY. THAT CAME FROM A MAJOR HOLLYWOOD AGENT. PRIOR TO THAT, I REPORTED EARLIER THIS YEAR WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES. THERE HAS BEEN A TON OF STAFF TURNOVER INCLUDING EXECUTIVES. WE DID REPORTING AROUND HOW MATT HAS PARADED STAFF IN THE OFFICE AND THE IDEA OF TRYING TO BUILD A PODCAST NETWORK HAS FALLEN FLAT. THERE NOT BEEN ANY SHOWS OF HERS BEYOND "CALL HER DADDY" THAT HAVE BROKEN THROUGH TO THE MAINSTREAM IN A MAJOR WAY. TIM: THE $5 BILLION ROUND SHOWS THERE IS CONFIDENCE BEHIND HER AND THE BRAND. ASHLEY: SHE IS A TALENT. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF WHERE YOUR BUSINESS GOES BEYOND JUST YOU. TIM: WHAT ARE EXAMPLES OF PODCASTERS WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TAKE A BRAND THAT HAS A HUGE AND LOYAL FOLLOWING AND BUILD IT BEYOND THAT PODCAST? ASHLEY: IT HAS BEEN DIFFICULT. JOE ROGAN HAS NOT HIRED A TON OF PEOPLE. TIM: HE JUST LIKES PODCASTING. ASHLEY: THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY DOING THAT. BUT HE HAS OPENED AT COMEDY CLUBS AND SEEMINGLY IS DOING WELL. IT GETS TRICKY WHEN YOU START EXPANDING HER EMPIRE TO BRING ON TONS OF EMPLOYEES AND DO A LOT MORE. TIM: ASHLEY CARMAN, HER REPORTING IS FANTASTIC AND IS ON THE TERMINAL AND OUT BLOOMBERG.COM. THAT WILL DO IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "BLOOMBERG TECH." CHECK OUT OUR PODCAST ON THE TERMINAL, AS WELL AS APPLE, SPOTIFY, AND IHEART. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. THIS IS BLOOMBERG. ♪