Bitcoin Falling to $50K Would Be A Blessing: Fundstrat's Sean Farrell

I do think that we are getting to the point where the riskreward for crypto is looking a lot better than equities. If we get to that low 50k range, I'll certainly be backing up the truck. All else being equal, of course. I think it'll be a huge opportunity for folks. [music] Welcome in to another edition of Coinage. I'm your host Zachman coming to you live from our Brooklyn studios here in New York City as we are watching another week play out at the nexus of crypto and traditional markets as Michael Sailor Strategy back selling more than $450 million in stock to boost their cash reserves. No buys, no sells on the Bitcoin front, but getting closer to their goals of having enough cash on hand, calming the market a little bit, me thinks. And we're going to get into all of that and much more today with our guest back on Quinnage today with us, Funstrat's head of digital asset strategy, Sean Frell. Sean, it's good to see you, man. Thanks for coming back on, >> Zack. Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. >> And we are, I should say, technically, let's see, are we in the red? Every time we have you on, we're in the red. Got to make sure we're keeping up with history. >> Got to make sure. >> Buy your puts when you see my name on the uh [laughter] on the run on the run of show >> today. Actually, I guess. >> Yes, we are on the red. All right, good. Everything's normal around here. Uh, and I guess, you know, we we've been watching everything play out in terms of uh pressure from strategy. Just want to get your take on whether or not you think we are out of the woods yet there. Uh, what's your take for where we are? >> Yeah, look, I I think um in terms of long-term um risk, you know, I I'm not sure we're completely out of the woods. I don't think we can say that uh you know they still have uh you know pretty significant obligations on the stretch preferred stock into perpetuity uh almost 2 billion per year. In addition you know I think as we get closer to next year I think some investors if again if the market does not turn you'll probably have some investors start to eye up those putable bonds of which they have about let's say five billion in principal that will be due you know in 2027 early 2028. So it's possible that you know the market holds strategies feet to the fire as it pertains to that cash obligation as well. But you know overall compared to where we were at a few weeks ago I do think a lot of the tail risk you know the spiral risk is mitigated. And um you know so I I don't view that as a huge idiosyncratic risk in the market here in the near or even medium term probably. Uh you know it is interesting though just given their new capital markets framework that they launched I guess it was last week two weeks ago uh two weeks ago I think um they're essentially acting as a closed edge and closed end hedge fund now uh you know they have identified formally bitcoin as this source of funding and um you know they are going to look to support both the you know preferred complex as well as common shareholders which they should you know they if I [snorts] do shares to the shareholders. >> Um, so I think it it just makes the strategy story perhaps just a bit less interesting, right? I think uh you know you might just start seeing less reflexivity out of out of uh strategy going forward, which you know isn't isn't bad necessarily. Um, but that's that's kind of my take as of right now. Well, it's interesting just because I don't know if if you had me look at all these things and again there are a lot of different layers to kind of look at the market impact here. Uh whether that is kind of how their common stock is trading um right now around 90 bucks which has been the case for a little bit. You mentioned kind of their their preferreds. Um but it does I mean they're they're kind of getting close. I I think I'm fairly certain their their goal is still two years, so just a little bit below um where they want to be in terms of cash on hand to pay out that dividend. Um but we did hear maybe the other side of the take from Mike Green. Uh we had him on the show last week. I just want to play a little bit of where he's at because if that's where market consensus is then you are I think you know much more in the optimistic camp and I guess that would say that there is a bit of a delta between where maybe uh market participants may be him representing more of the trady take here. Uh we'll just play a little bit of what he told us and then kind of get your rebuttal to that. Here's Mike Green last week. Take a listen. >> Look, nothing has changed. He has still adopted an extraordinary levered exposure. he will always need to sell Bitcoin in order to obtain liquidity unless Bitcoin rises enough that he can increase his borrowing capacity against it. It's the same phenomenon that we were highlighting before. He is running a levered exposure to a highly volatile asset. The volatility drag will ultimately eat this company. The only way it is saved is if Bitcoin goes to extraordinary new highs. I'm sure you have Bitcoin proponents in the audience to say, "Well, that's totally natural and that's fine. If that's the case, you are betting with Mike Sailor on Bitcoin in a somewhat levered fashion. >> Now, of course, I think you might agree that it'd be easier to kind of say we're out of the woods if we saw Stretch their preferred stock maybe trading a little bit closer. That one has not really fully recovered yet and still has a bit of a ways to go to get back to that $100 par value. But, uh, what do you make of what we just heard from Mike Green? >> Yeah, I actually don't think that's uh not that's not a crazy take. I think you know he he diagnoses the problem pretty well. You know, the problem is that or we call it a problem now because it's a bare market, but you know, he is uh taking out pretty expensive leverage to, you know, go long Bitcoin, right? He's paying, you know, I guess 12% on on preferred um you know, a bit bit less on on the conver convertible debt, uh you know, that he's raised, but it is, you know, a levered bet on on Bitcoin. And uh you know I think what if if Bitcoin just were to you know meander around where it is right now into perpetuity that is true. He would you know I think the Bitcoin on strategy's balance sheet would essentially act as this melting ice cube. He would sell you know continue to sell Bitcoin uh to you know satisfy those preferred dividends and you'd probably just end up you know seeing uh seeing that balance uh asmmptote towards towards zero. Um I guess you know my my view is that you know if things stabilize strategy isn't viewed as this idiosyncratic tail risk right there's no this there's no um you know imminent unwind risk uh then I think you know you can just uh at least my view is that over you know longer term time horizon you know you'll have the macro turn in a more constructive direction for liquidity sensitive assets and you know I think that will you know quote unquote bail out this levered exposure that strategy has. That's that's kind of my I guess more rosecoled take. >> Yeah, interesting use of of bailout. But I do understand what you're saying there. Alex Thorne also from Galaxy has been putting up this chart. I guess my question would be before we move on to other assets here would be kind of like what that catalyst is other than just kind of market uh market pieces changing because if it's not going to be strategy it's still a question here as to who else may be buying and it could just be you know reinvigoration from retail but right now maybe a slight turning if you look at general ending of outflows. >> Yeah, possibly. I think look I I think the problem is right now is that you know if you look at global markets um you know cross asset performance if you look at earnings growth you know there [clears throat] are just better things to buy right now I don't unfortunately I don't have the chart with me but um you know I think if uh if you look to the regime if you try to diagnose the regime we're in right now I think a lot of people are upset that that Bitcoin and by extension all the assets that you know perform as beta to Bitcoin just aren't performing while [snorts] you know equities by and large have continued to move up and to the right over the past six months or so and a lot of people are saying oh that's that's this is uh this is sad that Bitcoin can't perform amidst this environment but I I don't view it that way at all. If you look at, you know, the growth in global liquidity, uh, and compare that to the growth in earnings, you've had the growth in earnings per share outpaced the growth in liquidity as measured by some combination of M2 and central bank balance sheets. Um, you've had, you know, that earnings growth outpaced liquidity growth for the better part of the past 12 months or so. And in that environment, you know, you should favor uh those productive assets that are growing uh, you know, at a rapid pace. And I think that that really explains a lot of the regime we're in. And I think we're getting to a point where over the next three to six six months, we're going to see that dynamic change. And you're going to have people reach for um, you know, liquidity sensitive assets once again, these monetary hedges. And um, you know, you'll have demand outside of Stretch come into the market. Well, one of the pieces that I think we're going to dedicate a good chunk of the show to today is is all things Robin Hood, not just for what you want to talk about on the prediction markets front because as we also chatted about with Mike Green, a little bit of everything becoming a casino and no better maybe play for that than Robin Hood as as has always been kind of tied to retail speculation. Um, but also them not even just dipping a toe, but going full on with their uh layer 2 to kind of combat Coinbase on a second front uh shall we say. And as I guess we maybe highlighted a few times looking at the general performance between Coinbase and Robin Hood. Robin Hood's been smoking them over the last year. Um, and maybe we start with just kind of your take for what Robin Hood's layer 2 plans start to unlock for Ethereum because it has been a tough year for Ethereum. So maybe we start writ large on what you think any of this might do for Ethereum as an asset as you're seeing Robin Hood uh build on top of it. Yeah, look, I think u if you just take a longer term perspective once again um and just think about things more conceptually, I think that this certainly does play into the long-term bulk case for for Ethereum, right? The idea is that you have all of these um you know, I think before you had this idea of um you know general purpose L2s, a lot of activity happening happening on there and then that would eventually acrew to the L1. I think over time we've seen that that model doesn't really work um in any sustainable fashion and I think now a lot of people are coming around with the idea that you'll have you know maybe you'll have one general purpose L2 probably not uh but you'll have all of these different disperate corpo L2s that plug into the L1 perhaps also have some you know um uh some corporates plug into the L1 itself and over time you know you have yes these L2s are low margin businesses Right. I mean, ETH isn't really acrewing much value from, you know, even the the early spike in activity from from Robin Hood. I think, you know, on an annualized basis, they've made about 30 $30,000 in uh, you know, in fees off of off of Robin Hood chain. Um but you know if you you know see tokenized assets growing to 30 trillion and a good portion of them being housed on these corporate layer 2s and uh you know activity goes up 100x a thousandx you know you name the multiple uh that certainly is long-term you know you should acrew some value to to the base layer both from a cash flow perspective but also you know from um you know from from the perspective of of ETH being used as that uh that rout routing currencies on these L2s. >> I mean, how large does that need to get though? And maybe it's a good uh segue into what we we heard from uh your compatriate there at Fund Strat and Tom Lee because Bitmine was out noting that they also scooped up [snorts] a bit more in ETH getting very close to their 5% overall goal of 5% of the ETH outstanding. um but making mention of Robin Hood's chain and I guess you know if it is only 30 grand in terms of annualized uh fee revenue there it's it's it would take a lot more trading activity to actually start to move the needle. I don't I don't know if that's on the horizon anytime soon. [laughter] Yeah. No, I I I think it's tough to ascribe a lot of, you know, near-term, [clears throat] you know, fundamental value to, you know, this Robin Hood chain of in and of itself, at least as it pertains to ETH. Um, you know, I think from a narrative perspective, from a flows perspective, it could certainly catalyze, you know, some uh constructive price action perhaps on a go forward basis. Uh I think uh you know like I said going back to the whole ETH being used as a routing currencies currency on the on these L2s I think that is perhaps a more constructive element because you know you have seen about I guess 500 I don't have the exact number but I think you've seen about 500 million in in fees paid on Robin Hood in the span of of a Robin Hood chain on the span of a week which you know is incremental demand for for ETH as as a currency and so um yeah I I I think uh it's tough to it's tough to look at things from a cash flow basis and and say that this has really moved the needle for ETH, but from a you know narrative and and perhaps marginally from a flows perspective, it certainly helps on the margin. >> Well, I think in general it's just kind of one of those one of those narratives to pull and it's something that we have heard from Tom for a while on the tokenization thesis is that, you know, it's at least something that is different than than Bitcoin. And I know ETH had been one of your kind of uh more favored tokens, shall we say, relative to Bitcoin in terms of wanting to uh see some exposure and and moves here in 2026. You could bring up that chart, too. Hasn't necessarily played out in terms of uh things going back a year, year to date, basically about 30% to 40% in terms of where ETH is at. We talked a little bit about the overhang for um Bitcoin and Strategy and Sailor. on the ET side though I guess is it still the case that you would say that there's upside there relative to Bitcoin? >> Yeah and I think that uh you know a big reason obviously there are the thematic elements around tokenization and um you know stable coins which yeah again you can debate and I I would actually be um certainly a skeptic as it pertains to the actual cash flows that acrew to ETH from these themes. Uh but from a narrative perspective they do make sense um just as kind of a a left curve trade. Uh but also you know you have some interesting elements. There are you know like we talked about with strategy there is a world in which you know they well they do have cash obligations over the next couple years and these stretch stretch preferred dividends as well as those putable bonds. And so you know I think there's a world in which the market views that as a marginal overhang. Now, if you look at, you know, that sell pressure in potential sell pressure in Bitcoin relative to daily volumes, it's it's really just a drop in the bucket. But even if, you know, e even so, I don't think investors investors will will view that as kind of dirty dirtying the water for the Bitcoin trade. And so I think you know if folks are looking for crypto exposure um you know perhaps they will now view ETH as a cleaner trade uh just due to the lack of overhang. And I actually think that is a uh potentially huge catalyst for or uh we'll say a um significant tailwind for the ETHBTC chart going forward say over the next 12 to 18 months. uh and I guess you also can't forget about uh you know the quantum risk which you know again comes into and out of uh the the market psyche seemingly on on a weekly basis but you know it is still present is still with us I think you know you're not seeing the same level of motivation to solve for the qu for quantum risk in the Bitcoin developer community as as as opposed to uh you know the ETH community which you know I think developers have put forth, you know, a concerted effort to uh to put together a road map to make ETH quantum resistant. So, yeah, I think um you know, I'm definitely I'm less focused on the fundamental elements as it pertains to these corporates. I'm more focused on, you know, the macro flows, but when things do turn, I think for the reasons I just mentioned, ETH could actually set up be set up as uh we'll call it a a cleaner trade. Well, one of the things too, I guess, for for people watching and just figuring out, you know, where are we in terms of momentum across all of these themes, uh, whether it's tokenization and everything playing out there, it's been kind of the the drum beat for a lot of people in the ETH community was, hey, stable coins, tokenized equity, everything's happening on ETH. Uh, but also the other big thing that's happened this year has been a surge in prediction market volumes. Uh, and a lot of times people think call sheet, people think poly market, but it was your report recently that kind of started to highlight how much of this is in Robin Hood's camp as well. Um, so I almost wonder I want to get into whether you think it's it's more of like a picks and shovels trade here is just like, okay, if you think crypto's coming back, if you think prediction markets are here to stay, look no further than Robin Hood. And you had some great charts in your report as well, which I just kind of want to bring up, which just shows how you've kind of backed out some of the I guess the growth on the prediction market side for Robin Hood. Is it fair to say that this is kind of Robin Hood's kind of becoming one of the leaders in prediction markets? >> Yeah, and I think the market is overlooking this fact. You know, I I don't know about you, but I'm I'm uh inundated with Poly Market and Kelshi ads wherever I turn these days. And obviously they've found some interesting product market fit as it pertains to uh you know around markets uh pertaining to I think uh you know both geopolitical and uh political events but as well as um you know sports. So, um, yeah, I think a big reason why Poly Market and Kalia have been leading into advertising as of late is that, you know, they become these quasi sports books and Robin Hood also features, you know, those those sporting event contracts and, um, you know, they have demonstrated some very compelling traction in those event contracts. Uh, you know, over the past several quarters, we've seen that growth inflect higher. um you know that chart that you just uh showed that that showed their last quarter quarter quarterly P&L you know 10% of the revenue came from these event contracts which you know they have changed the pricing of them a bit but overall you know on a contract basis they're um they're quite profitable for for the business that used to charge about I think one to 1.1 to 1.2 few cents per contract. They've adjusted that pricing a little bit to make it kind of on a sliding scale percentage basis. So, they'll end up charging anywhere from, I don't know, say one to 5% um per contract. I don't have the exact formula in front of me. [laughter] >> Uh but, you know, you pair the the growth we've seen as well as as the uh real-time growth that we actually can look at in terms of you know, KHY traction. And I suspect that given, you know, the the World Cup that we just had, which I think has been a huge catalyst for prediction market volumes, I think that they're probably going to post a pretty impressive uh June and July in terms of these event contracts. And uh I suspect that a lot of folks are not uh a lot of investors are perhaps discounting the the creative effects that could have for for their P&L. And I guess just from a broader perspective, you know, you mentioned Robin Hood performance relative to Coinbase. And you know, I think a lot of folks, a lot of these fintech companies, Coinbase is trying to do the same. You know, they're all trying to build this this super app, right, where folks can come, they can speculate, right, on any asset class they want using any financial instrument, onchain, offchain, you name it. I think Robin Hood has just done a much better job in executing on that super app vision than than Coinbase and and some of its its other peers. And I think that's that's been reflected in that that Robin Hood Coinbase spread. >> Yeah. I mean, looking at that too, it's like a 50% surge in the last 3 months on Hood stock. Uh you zoom a little bit farther out and maybe not as impressive, flat over the last 6 months, but it is I mean, would you say that it's still safe to assume they got earnings coming up in what, a couple weeks? still safe to assume that maybe investors have overlooked a good chunk of that and that when we hear the earnings report this time around that it could be uh potentially something that could still have it run here. I don't know if if you have kind of a thesis on how much more we could see out of Hood, but I don't know. It's it's been hot recently. Yeah, I don't I don't have an exact price target for you uh right right this second, but um you know, I do think that there is some uh incremental upside left in the stock. Um and obviously, you know, it's uh you know, you you look at the Robin Hood Coinbase spread. I don't even know if we mentioned it, but I think the an obvious reason for that is that you know, Coinbase is just anchor. It's it's much more highly levered to crypto than Robin Hood is. You know, I think what we saw, we obviously saw a big sell-off in Robin Hood in uh, you know, Q1 along with the initial draw down in crypto. And I think that was just the market, you know, uh, fully pricing in or I should say pricing out any kind of uh, you know, um, earnings from you know, the crypto side of the business. But now like that now now the the cryptobate has kind of been priced out and now it's kind of just trading with broader risk asset trends retail volumes as well as these ancillary businesses like prediction markets that you know I think are showing a lot of a lot of compelling traction. Well, there is one element too that I know we wanted to touch on and you neither you nor I are really uh necessarily political experts although we have been highlighting this with um Kristen Smith at Salona Policy Institute on a lot of the interviews uh we've been putting out on coinage with with congressmen and women senators and odds that the clarity act gets passed have been coming down. I know you've been watching that. I've been watching that. Basically everyone in crypto has been watching it. I think it's now like the lowest mark we've seen in a while. Let me just bring that chart up on on Poly Market to to complete the segue. Um, but I don't know what you make of that. I'm in the camp that just because of the report that President Trump made more than half a billion dollars on his meme coin, it doesn't certainly help [snorts] the idea that maybe Republicans and Democrats can come together on the ethics concessions as part of this bill. And certainly push comes to shove, I'd be in the camp that President Trump's not going to sell himself out uh for the for the benefit of the rest of the crypto community to tokenize things. And so I don't know I don't know where you this could also be a big piece of why we're seeing Coinbase under pressure I think. >> Yeah. I mean I guess to counter that if you know if the Trump has already made a billion dollars on crypto maybe they will be more uh you know amendable to some sort of ethics provisions that Democrats want to see. And I I don't know. Uh, but look, I I think I I I, you know, keep tabs with folks that are closer to the metal on stuff related to DC and it seems like on a daily basis, the vibe shifts from say if we're ascribing a probability of clarity passing, it kind of shifts from say 40% to 60% on seemingly a daily basis. I think right now if you ask anybody they'll they'll ascribe you know basically a coin flip to it passing. I think, you know, like you said, the big hang-up for this bill, and it seems like it's going to be kind of a binary situation is uh are these e ethics provisions, right? And uh by the sound of it, it seems like there's a bit of a stand up standoff right now between uh you know, Democrats and Republicans uh both sides kind of saying that uh the other side has gone a bit radio silent on this front. And so, you know, I think my impression is that everything else that is negotiable within this bill is in a good spot, right? Uh, and if this these ethics concerns were not a part of the the the legislative process here [snorts] that, you know, I would I would be, you know, say north of 80% on this passing. The only reason it wouldn't be at 100% is that we are working with a very tight legislative window here. you know, Congress just came back from recess today. Uh they're going to likely start the voting process next week, at which point they'll have only until August 7th to get the final bill passed. Uh and then beyond that, you know, they go on another recess. And then beyond that, you know, the legislative calendar is just basically given the the midterms are this year, it's basically just uh you know, they're just going to be running the clock out. And so [snorts] they do have to get it done by August 7th and we'll get a pretty good read uh you know as we progress. We'll probably get some whispers throughout this week and we'll we'll we'll we'll get a pretty good re read by the beginning of next week I think in terms of the overall likelihood of of this passing. But you know right now if I were to describe a probability I would definitely be you know below 50% probably around that uh the polymarket odds of say 35 to 45% somewhere in that range. Uh but just under understanding that that there is a you know kind of a a binary outcome with these ethics provisions and uh that that could certainly turn in a more constructive direction on a whim. Yeah, I think right now we are seeing it down. Uh it's it's it's teetering on potentially the lowest odds we've seen since I don't know all the way back in uh what was that January, beginning of this year. Um so we'll keep an eye on it as well. But I guess just kind of to wrap up here, Sean, as we kind of shift out marketwide, as you mentioned, still as is always the case, but perhaps more so now than ever before, crypto, Bitcoin, ETH, everything else kind of in the context of what we are seeing play out from a macro perspective. And uh we were chatting about this with Mike Green last week too, but a very interesting and kind of weird market we now find ourselves in as potentially Iran looked solved, maybe not so solved anymore. We are watching oil tick higher uh kind of providing a little bit of pressure. I don't know if it's just that, but also kind of seeing a little bit of weakness after SKH Heinix uh went public last week in what was one of the largest uh listings that we've seen play out in SpaceX >> uh really in the history of of listings like that. And so I don't know what you make of kind of where the market's at and whether or not this shift might dent things. Yeah, look, I think uh I'm still last week I wrote about how, you know, I was I was a bit optimistic about a potential of a of a some some continuation in this tactical bounce. You know, I think we saw some pretty robust price action in the face of, you know, strategy selling some Bitcoin. I think that was very encouraging. You know, we have seen, you know, we did see some doubbish moves in the rate expectations market, although that has since reversed since things have flared up in the Middle East. Overall, I am still somewhat measured here over say the the near to medium term. I think um you know liquidity conditions are still pretty subpar. Rate expectations are you know once again calling for hikes you know despite a lack of inflationary signals from the swap mark swaps market. So I think that's interesting that also results in real yields just continuing to push higher which does uh once again tighten this tighten the screws a bit on liquidity conditions. uh you know you're seeing you know we've seen gold as well continue to trade a bit a bit heavily due to that and uh you know you couple that with the idea that you know we do have a new Fed chair and historically the market does chest the new Fed chair within the first say 12 months and I think the setup here is for a similar result. Uh we'll have CPI this week which perhaps could take some pressure off the Fed. Um but I'm still not sure that they'll be able to move the market in a conclusively dovish direction without uh you know a few constructive inflationary data data prints as well as um you know the findings from these task force that that Wars has put together. And so you know you couple that with the fact that I think you know if you look at the overall backdrop of uh if you look at risk measures you know high yield spreads are historically tight. the VIX is uh you know it's it's perked up a bit today but it closed below 16 you know on Friday I I I believe bond market volatility is still subdued and so um you know it's it's just again a >> subpar uh riskreward here for for going all in if your time horizon isn't say three months uh but you know I do think that we are getting to the point where [snorts] the riskreward for crypto is looking a lot better than equities. So, I think that is is I guess my constructive takeaway here. >> Well, I think that that's a good place to kind of wrap on and it's also something that you highlighted last time we had you on. talking about potential uh propensity to slip all the way down to 48K [clears throat] on the Bitcoin front and now I think given what we've seen in the market digesting strategies moves as you said pretty big kind of new framework that they put out somewhat categorically change things and weirdly not seeing a lot of pressure off of another $466 million share issuance on MSTR and so I guess in that setup just to reiterate the point and maybe close out it sounds like we've moved on from Sean Ferrell being that bearish to an era of time where you say year end there is light at the end of the tunnel. >> I think that both of those things can be true. [laughter] >> Fair. And maybe it's an important update because last time I guess there could have been uh you know a bunch of people who were 48k and just left for a while. But I don't know. I don't know if you're going to get a much better entry point here necessarily. That's kind of my thing. >> I I I uh you might be right on that. Um, but it's always good to be prepared with, you know, some downside targets. And, you know, once we get to that, say, you know, low 50k range, if we get to that low 50k range, I'll certainly be, you know, backing up the truck. Uh, all else being equal, of course. Um, >> but, uh, but yeah, I think if we get 48k, that would be uh, you know, that would be a blessing for those who [laughter] who are that that that is my view. I think it would be a huge huge opportunity for folks. >> Well, always good to be prepared for those things, too. And this is one of the few times that we didn't have time to get into uh your take on Hyperlid either, but it has been interesting to kind of continue to watch that play out and and more price discovery happening before IPOs and and listings. I think that that's another thing to continue to keep our eyes on. Certainly a name that you watch closely as well. But, uh but we'll leave it there for now. Sean, can't thank you enough for coming back on and and hopefully you and I uh as we watch this World Cup wrap up, we'll be just a couple weeks away from seeing what kind of impact that had on Robin Hood, but appreciate the update there as well. >> Yeah, appreciate you having me, Zach. Always always a pleasure to join. >> Right on. Sean Ferrell there from Funstrat, uh leading some great research as always. Uh shout out to him and his team and and what the research is. And if you haven't subscribed to it, go check out Sean's work at Funstrat as well. Well, for Sean and myself, that's going to do it for today's show. As always, you can head to coinage media to see uh the biggest interviews from around the world of crypto and tradi. And of course, can mint to co-own our outlet along with me, co-founder of Netflix, and everybody else in our community as well as we pioneer the first communityowned media outlet built on chain. Some big updates to come as well from our coin on base coinage as we continue to work with the air drrome team to boost liquidity over there. That's all I can say for now legally speaking. For Sean, for myself, for everybody at Quinnage, thanks again for tuning in. We'll see you again soon.