The UNTHINKABLE is About to Happen to Copper (& Why These 3 Stocks Could Triple)

Supply and demand. It's the oldest market driver in the books. Right now, there is a massive shortage in supply and a huge increase in demand for a critical material in the whole AI and energy story happening in America right now. And retail investors are just starting to catch on to this potential. Joining us today is Ross Given with the Traers Agency. Ross, so great to have you on the show. I know many people might recognize you from your own YouTube channel. We love doing collaborations with other channels. You talk about trading normally, but you also talk about a lot of market trends that you are bullish on. And I'm excited to dive into this topic today because it's one sector of the market that you have done a few videos on talking about how bullish you are on copper. This is an area we haven't talked about on this channel in a while. And I think there's a lot to talk about here with supply and demand. The price of copper just reached a new all-time high in just the last week or two, and it's starting to get back in the headlines again. But this story is really just beginning. So Russ, give us the breakdown. Why are you so bullish on copper right now? >> Well, I think copper is one of the biggest sleeper stories out there. It has been creeping higher, but I firmly believe that this is going to be one of the best investment opportunities over the next 3 to 5 years. And as is typically the case, people don't notice it until, as you said, it's making new highs. Everybody started paying attention to gold when it was at 4,000 and 4500 and flying higher, right? And the shiny stuff tends to get the attention. It's been all about AI since 2022, 2023, and that's been Nvidia, which is$6 trillion dollars now. You're not early, right? That one's happened. The semiconductors across the board, the the big AI firms, we've got uh Anthropic going public and all, but people have forgotten for a lot of years that all this requires physical things, right? You have to build the data centers. You have to power them. You have to connect it. You need electricians and plumbers and and concrete. And this has been the lagging area. And the chart is just telling the story of both huge demand and the opportunity being there's not enough of it. There's a big gap between how much they're mining, how much they're expected to mine and how much we're going to need. And that is just creating this huge supply demand imbalance that I believe is going to lead to a massive move in comp. I think you're still early in copper. >> Yeah, this is one of those picks and shovels plays that a lot of people have come on the show and talk about. We continue to talk about that AI infrastructure story and where you're going to see some of the real wealth are those picks and shovels plays of the components needed uh to to continue this massive buildout that's happening everywhere. And this is one of those really interesting one because it's not just the data centers, it's also the power story which is another huge topic we talk about of so many energy stocks. The power grid needs to get updated. that demand doesn't seem like it's going to be going away anytime soon. And then on top of that massive demand story, you also have some geopolitical issues in there, too. So, let's talk about that. There were some recent headlines just in August about um some different changes happening in the Congo and other areas. So, geopolitical factors also a deal here with copper. >> They do. Yes. I mean, we we we all know at this point our administration is very much uh wants America to build and control its own supply chains. It started with the chips act back in 23. They said, "We're going to give you guys billions in incentives. Make your stuff here in America. I don't want to be dependent on stuff coming out of China." We're seeing that with the rare earths. We're seeing that with all the big assets. So, yes, the tough thing about copper is most of the co like globally where the most copper is is is is Africa. That's where the best grades and origins. So, that and that's not the easiest place to do business, right? you're talking in some parts of Africa, you've got warlords, you've got, you know, it it's not business as usual. So, I like to focus on the domestic producers um both because I think they're going to be treated better politically and and and and that includes things like tariffs to protect US copper, etc. They're safer businesses. They're not going to get nationalized. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense to focus on American mining companies because there's so much of a focus right now from the federal level on generating more of these rare earth materials, mining them here at home. So, I think for those reasons that you mentioned that focusing on American companies is a really great plan for investors right now. I know you have three companies to share with us today, three different stocks to talk about in the copper mining space. And I know you've got a really good diverse group of stocks to look at today from the biggest minor to a mid mid-range minor to a small cap miner too and why it's important to look at all three when you are looking to build your position in copper mining stocks. So we're going to get into those names in just a minute, but I want to cover a little bit deeper Ross into the overall copper demand story. A lot of people think AI, as we kind of hinted at, it's not just an AI story here. There just demand coming from a lot of different places for copper. We're electrifying everything, right? The EV cars, these robots. If Musk is right and we have a billion humanoid robots, I mean, those things don't run on pixie dust and optimism, right? They need power. You have to get the there's huge batteries in all of them. And so our grid that was built in the 60s and 70s simply cannot hold and and produce the amount of electricity and power we need no matter how efficient or how much gains we have in efficiency. So, everyone knows this. We need huge grid expansion. We need huge increase in power and all of that. Anything you plug into a socket has copper in it. So the the demand there is just is just astronomical and growing, right? The blue line is supply, projected supply from today over the next 15 years. And the black line is demand. So we need more and more and more of it. We're finding less and less and less of it, right? And as we dive in here, if you can look at it by sector, if this is nerding out to anybody, I apologize. I'll try to make it quick, but like you if if you see like the core economic, just what we use in all the stuff we make now is in gray. The blue is this energy transition and and the increased electricity demands. The orange is the data center. So like this is not just a data center story. That's not helping the copper situation, but it's not the big story. But we're we're both in a period where we need more of it and we're finding less. Like the ores the the grade of the ore they getting in copper today is like a tenth of what it was before. So for all the stuff they they m the ground they're getting onetenth the the pure copper they did in the 60s and 70s. And so you know the discoveries you can see this is from capital. A lot of this was from a uh I should credit the guy. I don't want to steal anybody's work. Some of these graphics were great. uh guys, it's his name is Theory Vonervy. Um Theory from RV, excuse me. A big substack and he put a lot of this together, but clear as day, like we're just not finding much copper. And when you dive into this deeper, this chart kind of paints the whole picture. The blue, the 700 metric tons is all the copper that has been mined across this globe in the last 10,000 years. That's every we ever below the other 700 metric tons is what we're going to need for the next 25 years. And you can recycle a little bit of it, right? But you're not pulling the copper out of your son's, you know, gadgets and toys. You're just toss them in the trash. Most of them get recycled. So, it is a massive, massive demand. And the stocks, this is when I really like to put my foot on the gas is when you have a macro story. And I hope what I'm showing makes sense. It's like we need a lot, we don't have a lot, right? It's pretty simple. And then the chart kind of confirms that. And when you see accumulation in these stocks, these institutions, your hedge funds, your Buffett types, your your endowments, and your Black Rockcks who spend $100 million a year on research, when you see that they are coming in early and they're accumulating and drunken Miller disclosed he owns copper and the copper miners, that's when you've got the big opportunities. Yeah, those institutional moves can be really big signals of when to watch a specific sector. I mean, you can you can follow institutional moves on specific stocks, but when you look sectorwide and you see so much institutional money flowing into the sector, it's a good signal that they are confident in that move that you were just talking about, Ross. So, I think it's a good thing to watch, but I also know that this is something we've seen historically in the past before. We've seen big run-ups and a lot of excitement around the price of copper, the price of gold, the price of silver several times over the last decade or so. So, I want to look back historically a little bit about how the excitement surrounding copper right now compares to what it's looked like in the past. I know you said you have a really interesting graphic to show us, too, that shows a little bit of that historical context. >> This is a chart probably no one's seen before. I hadn't seen it, but they did the copper to NASDAQ ratio. So in other words, not just what's the dollar amount, but what is the price of copper relative to the stock market? And in those terms, it's extremely cheap. In fact, as cheap as it's been in 25 years. And this is the big tell to me, Bridget. And this is something they call it backwardation. So you know, you're buying crude or or wheat or copper or whatever, and you're buying it for delivery in the future. So if today in September I bought a December oil contract that means I'm buying you know thousand barrels of crude to be delivered in December. And so generally the the further out it goes the December than the J the price is slightly higher. If I were to buy a copper contract which is 25,000 pounds of copper and I want it delivered next week that's going to be slightly cheaper than what I want delivered in December because the one in December they got to store the stuff. You're going to pay a little bit of interest in that cuz you're holding on margin. And that's just how it normally goes. And so that orange chart shows they call a front month spread like how much more or what is the spread between the front month and the rear. And typically it's about even to to slightly below, right? But if you look at what's happened the last couple of months, it is soared. Meaning it costs four it is $400 per ton more to get copper delivered tomorrow than it is to get copper delivered in October or December. And that just doesn't typically happen. And the reason it is happening is there's not much out there. Like the the the the stock piles you see here on the bottom are are cratering. And so when people are paying a premium to get it now, that's why I think you're seeing the prices of copper finally push into new highs. You're seeing the copper miners set up. I I if you look back over like a 100 120 years, there is roughly what they call this 30-year commodity cycle where, you know, commodities tend to run in these these big what I call super cycles. And so if you look here uh this is just a general commodity index but like from 1930 to early 40s huge run up in commodity prices in the 70s was bagflation huge run up 2000 to08 remember when gold went from like 300 an ounce to to to uh uh 2,000 an ounce right and oil went crazy and all the we got the big run. So this roughly 30 year and I don't really like the timing stuff. I think things are moving a lot faster today than they were in 1920, but it lands us roughly 2030, 2040 out in there for the peak of the next run. When you kind of put this stuff together and say, "Okay, I understand we're going to be using a lot. We don't have a lot." And a lot of people go, "Well, they're just going to mine a bunch more ro supply and demand We know how this works. if if it's going for eight bucks, nine bucks, they're going to but they can't because it takes 10 to 15 years to get a new copper mine up and running. It's it's not easy and it's not cheap. And even if you have a president who cut all the red tape, you're not going to be making copper come February. Like it's going to be 2030 if you just if Musk got involved, maybe he gets copper coming out by 2030, right? That's true. I just don't see how this gets solved. And you know, when there's not enough of something and everybody wants it, who's going to pay me the most? >> Ross, you are clearly a wealth of knowledge on all of these topics. They are things that you dive into all the time on your YouTube channel, but also in your Black Ops trading club. This is a really great club where you do live trading in front of everyone. And you can join for a special offer today of just $5. So, a full year of trading with Ross, getting that live trading uh coaching and education, and also looking specifically at some of those trades that you could make. Th this video today is really all about Copper. We're going to dive into the three stocks we're talking about. But Ross is that expert on trading. And if you want to learn a little bit more, this is such a great way to do it. Again, just $5 for a full year of joining the Black Ops Trading Club. You can scan the QR code or click the link down in the description and sign up for that offer today. All right, Ross, we have talked a lot about the macro discussion on what's happening with copper, why there's so much demand. Let's get into these three copper miners that have a lot of potential right now. What's the first stock you're looking at? >> All right, so the first one I would say is uh Freeport Macaran, ticker FCX. This is just the big kahuna, the biggest domestic producer one. I mean, you can see here like earnings consistently rising just in the last two years. It's gone from 30, 25, 30 cents a quarter to 50 to 70. I think you're going to see multiple dollars a quarter uh very very soon because it's just a le it's an operating leverage. You know, people don't think about this for for whatever reason, but any minor you're talking about whether you're talking about a gold mine or a copper miner, it's the same strategy, right? They have what is called their allin sustaining cost. And forgive me if I'm talking elementary, all your viewers already know this, but you know that's what it costs them to get the stuff out of the ground. And if it's gold, that may be 1,500 2,000 an ounce. If it's silver, it would be 10 or 15. Copper, let's just call I'm going to make up numbers here. Let's call it $4 a pound. Okay, that's what it cost them after they figure it all out. Pay everybody the equipment credits to come down. Four bucks a pound. And so they're selling it. Whoops. I don't know what I did there. They're selling it for obviously more than that. Let's say today it's trading, let's just use $6 to be simple. Okay. Well, here's what happens. If copper goes up to, let's just call it eight, right? That's a 33% increase in the price of copper. But if you're a minor, your profit, this looks total mess. Anyway, your profit buying at four and selling at six goes from $2 to $4. It still cost you four bucks to get a stuff out of the ground, right? it doesn't cost you any more if the price is higher instead of selling for selling for eight. So a 33% increase in the price of copper is a 100% increase in that miner's profits. And so that's why that's what they call operating leverage. That's why when gold's up 100% the m gold miners up 200, 300, 400%. Right? So that's where the the real leverage is here. So you just have to remember like as the price rises, they're getting massively more profitable uh for every dollar of sales. Such a great point about the profit growth for this company. As the price of copper rises, their profit margins are going to grow too. And I think that's an incredibly important point, not just for this one, but for all of the stocks that we are going to talk about today. But with FCX in particular, I want to dive into the chart a little bit more here because you you made a good case for why it's going to grow. But looking at the the price action in the chart, this one's already up over 57% in the last year. And that's even before it's had the recent pullback from the highs it saw just a couple of weeks ago of really that chart moving in line with the price of copper topping out last week or so. So looking at that chart a little bit closer, what does that tell you about getting into this stock right now? I'm very much a technical guy when it comes to entries and exits like figuring out where's a good place to buy. And what you'll typically see in any commodity, any stock, anything being accumulated in great numbers, right, is this kind of consolidation pattern where you'll see like a big rise in the price, which is, you know, heavy buying coming in and then a period of multiple months where they're absorbing the shares. And so this is where the conspiracy theory comes in. Like are they spreading rumors that like you talked about oh data centers they're not using copper this story's inflated whatever to get people to say oh that thesis is wrong I'm going to sell it off like are they downgrading the stock are they out there running counter stories to what I'm telling people anyway what's happening is there's profit taking going on here there's there's uh people getting stopped whatever but like what's happening in these is this consolidation the price comes down they're actively buying it up and building these position positions. And you typically see this kind of shallow, meaning the dips get less and less and less because there's fewer and fewer shares out there. That's the float, the available shares in the market is is shrinking and and typically when that happens, what you'll see is it'll kind of come in, you know, whatever, and then break out, and that's where the the big explosive move is over the next few weeks or few months. So, listen, this the story is legit either way. the fundamentals work, but if you really want to come in with a scalpel and try to time this thing, well, that's what I'm seeing in Freeport. Macmaran's kind of the the the big winner. Uh, and look, I'll show you two more here. If you look at this is the copper miners ETF. So, we're seeing the exact same thing play out in these mining stocks. So, I think the big money, the smart money has been accumulating these copper miners all of 2026 and it looks like they're going to be the big winners of the fourth quarter of 2027. And if you look at copper futures again, we have this like 12 month consolidation. This is just absolutely textbook stuff. And you're going, "All right, where are you expecting?" Well, let's back up here. Yeah, I'm not going to promise you what copper does by Thursday or by the end of the week, but over the next few years, what you typically see in these is is a multi-year multiund% run. It's the same with gold, is the same with with steel. And so where you have these two decades of really no significant improvement. Meanwhile, everything else is significantly higher in terms of dollar prices. We're not looking at copper going from $660 to $7 or $8. I mean, we're looking over the next few years to like $25 a pound. So this is a a a much bigger uh uh opportunity over you know call it two to five years. Yeah, that time horizon was going to be my my big question here is you are a trader who normally looks at these short-term opportunities, but you're saying that copper really all the stocks we're going to talk about today, these are great like long-term to midterm, that 2 to 5year opportunity for growth and potentially exponential growth uh given the the price predictions you have for copper because that would mean a lot more profitability for these copper miners who are still mining this at $4 per pound for expense and are now getting so much more profit. So, it's an interesting concept of uh why these why these stocks that all three of them really could continue to grow on FCX here specifically talking about uh this is the biggest player of the three that we're going to be talking about. If you're an investor, do you look at getting into the biggest one uh because they're a winner. Is there anything else with FCX that makes it stand out um above the other two names that we're going to get to here in a minute for copper miners? Anything else about this one that would would sway an investor to look here instead of some of the others? Um, so many follow-up questions. Another one I have too, looking at FCX, uh, where it's trading today, it does look like we're already trading with where analysts expect this to grow. We're we're not at the all-time highs up for this stock, but we're pretty close to it. We're definitely at the upper end of that 52- week range. Do you think that it's already trading too high for people to be looking at it right now? Are we just at the the cusp of the story? >> No, I don't think. And this is, you know, a fallacy. Everyone is kind of taught buy low, sell high, and they make the mistake of basing their low and high numbers on where the stock has been before, but if you did that with Apple or Amazon or Google or anything else for the last 20 years, you just you it'll never been the right time to buy because it's always at its high up until now. So, the goal is to say, listen, I want to buy low and sell high, but I want to sell high based on where it's going, not where it's been. We've never had 10 or 15 or $20 copper. So we've never had a two or three or $400 a share Freeport Magmaran obviously, right? So I I think the company is fairly valued based on $65 a pound copper without a doubt. I'm not saying the stock is trading at three times earnings and it's massively undervalued. That's not the case. It's that the product they're producing, which is copper, is scheduled I I well I believe I'm predicting it's going to be significantly higher. And so if that's the case, their profits are going to skyrocket. So these these mining stocks are really just kind of a vehicle to get the price appreciation on the copper. You're not betting that they figure out a better way to do it or that they've got special machines or they can sell copper at a higher price. You're just betting on the rise up. So FCX all things being equal sure the bigger more stable larger company like FCX is going to be a little less volatile uh than you know a TCO mine something smaller but in general it's going to be a group move copper goes up all the miners are going to go up copper goes down all the miners are going to go down. Well yeah, you can definitely see them moving as a group. As we move on to the second stock here and you look at the chart, their charts action looks very very similar too. And I think you're going to see that in all three of the names that we cover today, even though they are very different companies. >> Yeah. And this is I I've got this marked up. I I do like I said all these live classes that $5 thing. We could get a lot every week every week. But yeah, we bought this in one of our services for our members with that exact same pattern I just showed you. Right? You see the big move. It kind of comes in and consolidates and tightens up. This wasn't fun to own in October, November, December. But if you buy here and it's emerging, that's when you can get the big move. Had a little retest here. I'm getting deep in the weeds of the technicals, but yes, you're right. They they all they're all going to look very very similar. The difference is how how volatile are they, right? So FCX, HBM, uh, TGB. So FCX is the biggest one, right? If you look at the I don't know if you can see this, the ADR, that's the average daily range for anyone watching. That just means how much the stock typically moves from its high to its low in a given day. So Walmart's going to move 2%. SpaceX might move eight or nine. It oh sorry it's about 3 12%. And as you get to the smaller companies uh this is uh well Tor now they renamed is more like 4 and a.5%. And if it were like a real needle in the haststack massive debt it might move five and a half percent. So they are a little bit more volatile. But yeah, all I mean honestly, and this is going to be kind of boring, there's not a whole lot of different story to tell between them. Um HUD is is is, you know, a little less uh stable than SCX in terms of earnings consistency, uh, sales consistency, but I think they're all going to benefit very similarly. The chart is a little bit choppier as you'd expect with a stock's got a little bit more volatility, but you know, as you normalize these out and you got to go to long scale to do that, it it's just what you typically see is these periods of price discovery followed by consolidation discovery and then just these multimonth big consolidation windows which are typically followed by an explosion uh uh to the outside here. Yeah, that breakout can really be seen in all of the copper stocks that we're talking about today. Really the entire sector. Uh it moved right along with that price of copper again topping out last week sometime. So looking at the three companies you have for us, you talked about FCX first, which is that really largecale miner here. HBM here is that midcap miner and I know you also want to mention one of those small cap miners that you're watching. You talked about it briefly a little bit earlier. What's that third smaller cap miner you're talking about? And then the the other one I was mentioning, I called it the seco mod. I forgot they renamed uh as as tor, but TGB uh is another one. And this one trades extremely cleanly as well. You get nice steady powerful uptrends. you you you tend to get these kind of clean consolidation periods or or ideally more closer to what we're seeing now, which is this this kind of cup with handleish consolidation type stuff, right? Breaking out, retest. Uh and listen, I I I don't think these stocks are going to be nice little 20 or 30% moves. I think these stocks are going to double and triple and quadruple uh over the next couple of years. It just depends on your time frame. Yeah, we've gotten to all three stocks really quick here, but I do have lots of follow-up questions on the last two kind of as a group. Kind of as a group, but I do want to mention to people if you love looking at Ross' charts and the way he explains things on the daily. Again, there's that QR code or that link in the description if you want to sign up for that special offer to join his Black Ops Trading Club. Again, this is great one-on-one teaching. You get to spend an hour a week with him at least more than that right Ross? >> Yeah. So, it's again, everyone hears this goes, "Oh, what's the catch?" Like, it's seriously just five bucks. There's no gotcha. There's no it's going to renew at $200. I wanted to do something that said, "Okay, pull out your credit card cuz no one values and they don't have." But like I I'm not getting rich on five bucks. I promise we're losing money. But yeah, the the goal is to really help people see how the market works. So what we do is we get together live every Monday for an hour with me and the other members. Uh and I go through this stuff like what's leading the market, what are the chart patterns, can kind of predict these moves, how do you find your entries and exits? and we look at their stocks and a lot of them I say I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole. Others we got members who brought great ideas I'd buy myself. So we do that every week. I send them my email newsletter every week that we do a couple indicators and stuff that can see what's leading the market. But it's just a way to introduce people to stocks. We have hundreds of people who come in and wow I didn't know this. I didn't know how this works. So uh I I think it can be eye opening and in a year you know you weren't a market person. It's it's incredible what you can learn in a year. Well, it sounds like a great education program for people who are wanting to learn a little bit more. Again, that chance to get one-on-one with you and ask you questions directly is great and for five bucks. So, again, if you want to take advantage of that offer, we've got that QR code, the link in the description, and you can learn more from Ross every week. But I want to learn more right now, Ross. Uh, again, you've been in the market for forever. You worked at JP Morgan for a long time, and that's why I want to ask you about institutional ownership of these three different names. If you look at the three different copper miners that you brought us today, um they have vastly different numbers when it comes to what percentage of the stock is actually owned by those big institutions and obviously the smaller one TGB, that one has almost no institutional ownership. It's not even 20%. Then you have the next one has about 50% that HBM. Um but the the bigger company you talked about has over 80% institutional ownership. Is that something you care about? What does that tell you about a stock if you see institutions buying into some of these minor while they're really staying away from others? Well, it's not something I care about. No, I'm not an institution, right? I'm not trying to put $10 billion into a stock at a time. And but that's that's what you pointed out is essentially the reason that I FCX is a little more stable, less volatile, and the other is more volatile because institutions, yes, they buy the it's going to go up, but they also have to buy what they can. You know, if you are Black Rockck and you're managing $8 trillion, you don't mess with a midcap miner where the most you could buy would be 0.001% of the portfolio. That's why they don't mess around with small caps and low dollar stocks. So, they have to focus on the biggest, highest market cap names because of the amount of money they're putting into them. They there's just not enough shares out there. They'd either move the price or wouldn't get a big position. So, I I think you're going to see when you start looking at those, 95% of the time the stocks the institutions own are the biggest ones and the ones they own the less of are smaller. It It's not indicative they don't believe in this company. It's just a function of their limitations to me. >> Yeah. For you, does that mean more opportunity for retail investors in the retail community to get in on some of these smaller names that the institutions are missing right now? >> I think so. I mean, listen, it's it's just like anything else. If you're right, if everything I say plays out as I expect, and I'm right, and copper goes to 10 or 15 or 20 or $30 a pound, I think all things considered, yes, you are going to make a higher percentage gain with a TGB than you would on an FCX. I don't think it's going to be 30% versus 300. I might I think one might be up 400 and one might be up 200 or 250. Um, and if I'm wrong, it you're probably going to get stung a little worse on TGBs than you would on FCX. So, it's just about, you know, your risk tolerance, what you're going for. You know, some of these yolo, Lambo, or bus ticket traders are going to load up on short-term call options on the smallest one and really press the gas. Others are going to just, you know, buy SCX with a reasonable portion of their portfolio. So, they'd benefit from that. It depends on the person. >> Yeah. Depends on what kind of what kind of investing you like to do for sure. Um, I want to talk about that risk a little bit more of if you're wrong. Uh, let's dive into that a little bit because what the prediction you gave for copper is a big one. That's a huge growth story over the next couple of years. I think that supply and demand we talked about early on definitely helps support that theory that the copper price is going to not just increase but substantially increase over the next few years. But what if it doesn't? You know, what would what would the market conditions look like where the high that we just saw, you know, a week ago in August for copper was really the only high we're going to see for a while. Is there any world where you see that happening? And I just want to talk about the potential risk a little bit. >> Yeah. Well, to be clear, there's absolutely risk. There's risk in everything. I mean, if there's no risk, it'd be a treasury. Even that's got risk to be honest, but you wouldn't make any money on it. So, that's absolutely possibility. But I I I think the risk is more in the timing of it. Like >> maybe this drags out further and you know, the the math just just is the math. I I if if supply and demand no longer dictate prices, well, I I don't know what to do anyway, right? So, that's going to happen. I think the risk is things don't go as quickly as we expect, right? The the the forecast for the demand or the dem forecast of demand for copper in 2027 is not what they thought it would be in 2020. Like it's that it's it's a year later or two years later, right? Um but they're profitable at six and a half bucks a pound. They were profitable at five bucks a pound, right? But if you look at what the analysts say for production, because the only fixes if they start mining more copper right? >> Copper has to be at $7 a pound just to justify the expense and the time of building out and developing new copper mines. That's what it would take to say this papers. This makes sense for us as a minor to expand. We're not even there yet. So if no one is going to produce more and the demand is going to steadily I just don't see how the price goes down. But don't go full leverage with your whole account on the on on one idea that if it doesn't happen you know in the next 3 months you're under. But yeah there's risk but I I I think the upside massively uh outweighs it. >> Yeah. One more risk to talk about with miners. I know that you're someone who's interested in not just copper but gold and silver as well. And so I want to talk about the risk with miners in general too that execution risk of what it takes to develop a mine. Uh that's something that we've had a few guests on in the past before who've talked about there's a lot of risk. You know, you can uh have all of the the studies done, think you have what what you're going to get, but actually getting to it can be way more complicated than than expected. And there's always going to be unexpected things pop up when you are developing a mind. So I want to talk about that risk too with these companies. Could that impact each one individually potentially um if it that execution doesn't go quite as planned of their different mining sites? >> Yeah. Well, you you just made the case for FCX, right? They already got it. It's coming out of the ground. We've seen it. We've smelt it. We've licked it. We're bringing it out. It's going to keep coming out. You know, the junior miners, like your really small uh market cap, you know, we think it's there. We're probably going to bring it out. Uh yeah, you 100%. that that's going to be part of that risk. But the these are all developed miners, right? I mean, Freeport, the biggest one is is huge. It's a hundred billion dollars. If you look at like a Hudbay, I say they're all developed. Hud Bay, uh, around 12.5 billion dollars. That may be true for TGB because you're right, a lot of their valuation is based on assumptions of getting that stuff out of the ground. So, the way the market generally prices that, the price is not based on 100% they're going to get it all. I it it's kind of a little bit of that risk is priced in. So, they're going if they do exactly what they said, it's going to go up a little more. If a little worse, it's going to go down. Um, but I mean, listen, yeah, you're looking at a stock that was $2 in May of last year, and it's now eight. So, the companies don't triple it. They're just a nice steady pulling copper out of the ground. There's absolutely execution risk. TGB is going to be the bigger one. FCX is going to be uh a lot lower in terms of that that particular risk. uh really good education on uh really the whole copper mining field as a whole. What to expect as an investor. Ross, thank you so much for giving some great information to our viewers today and three great copper mining stocks to consider right now. >> I appreciate you having me on the channel. It's an honor. I'm a big fan of yours and the work you're doing. I was telling you before we started, uh I think you are you are the uh top female in the entire finance YouTube space. I love your perspective. I think you're a wonderful interviewer. I think you're genuinely interested in these topics and it is it is clearly reflected in your videos. So, from everyone that watches you, keep up the great work. We appreciate all you're doing. >> Oh, thank you so much. So great to have you on the show. I loved the conversation today. Let me know your thoughts in the comments. Are you interested in this copper mining story? Do you think the thesis is true that this price is just going to continue to increase because of that supply and demand issue? I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments. And if you want to hear more about mining, here's the last video we did talking about some other mining stocks.