‘Extreme Volatility’ Ahead: Market’s ‘Most Mispriced Opportunity’ Revealed | Gianni Kovacevic

We will talk about what I think is the most mispriced opportunity on on the stock market in general, you know, and it's has to do with the happens. We are going to have extreme volatility. They've electrified their economy. This is only possible with copper and aluminum. This trend will continue. China will be 550% of final energy usage will be electrification around 2040. And now the West is it's going to go parabolic. >> Welcome back everybody. I'm currently traveling, which is why my background is a little bit different, but I'm here with long-time guest of the program Gianni Kovacevic, investor and author, and we'll be getting his take on the shifting commodity landscape. Are we in a commodity super cycle right now with gold, silver, and a lot of other precious metals moving up parabolically since the beginning of August. Welcome back to the show. Gianni, good to see you again. >> Nice to see you, David. You're I believe in Vancouver Island. I'm hearing. >> That's right. >> Asia 8:00 p.m. and the sun is setting behind me, but keeping current, stock market opens at 3:30 and I love my 3 or 4 hours of reading and collaborating with people I've known for a long time. >> Absolutely. Are you buying the precious metals rally right now? >> Well, I'm already in it. So, I have got a good allocation. I think I have a nice portfolio of stocks and I'm still skewed a little bit more towards electrification. That's where my heart beats. And we will talk about what I think is the most mispriced opportunity on on the stock market in general, you know, and it's has to do with the oil and gas industry, David, not necessarily mining, even though it is. It's another hinge of history, and I think there's a >> that. Yeah. Oil and gas right now has been extremely volatile. Funds have been up and down in the last couple months because of where volatility is headed or has been with oil and gas. Right now, it's hinging on the straight up from those reopening. What are you watching for placements in the oil and gas sector? In other words, what would you be watching for either a decision to sell or buy more into the sector right now? >> Well, isn't it remarkable that with all the volatility where you've had which are the three world's largest producers of oil, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the United States. And we have had hindrance in those big markets since Russia invaded Ukraine four years back. We have the the tensions with the Israel and its neighbors. We have the tensions now with the United States, Israel, and And yet the oil price is not crazy higher. So, if you look at the de-dollarization trade or the inflation trade where all of the commodities have have moved up. And even in the background of that kind of war, oil simply cannot go to some number. Where where should it be? If you look at where oil and copper were and copper in in gold in 2008, 2011, oil should maybe be $200 a barrel. If especially with gold now at you know, over $4,000 an ounce. The remember the oil used to trade when when OPEC was created, the idea was to settle in US dollars, but they always if they had 10 barrels of oil, you used to be able to have to buy an ounce of gold. It's all broken down, David. This this electrification trend is still within our midst and I think longer term, it's a painful slow process like an like an iceberg turning. But the we are slowly going away from the this is the beginning of the end of the of the oil era, I believe. And that's why one of the reasons we haven't seen oil at $200 a barrel. >> You think higher oil is going to cause the economy to slow down, which is going to cause a pullback in copper and lithium which we'll talk about which are industrial metals needed only if the economy keeps growing, Johnny. >> Of course, a very expensive oil is going to always tether the global economy. And we also have the the the overall volatility of the stock market. An economist I am not. Uh I look at it like everyone else. I hope I I I try to sort of read the tea leaves between 10 or 15 wise people in financial markets and I sort of come up with my own opinions. The sword of Damocles that's hanging over this whole exercise is the global stock market where if we have these untenable debts, government debts, namely the United States, you know, there has to be some sort of settlement there. When that happens, we are going to have extreme volatility. That's going to be on our doorstep. This is not something I'm not talking about 10 years from now. This could happen at any time. People are very much a front-page story. We see now with the best in them they're interfering with with certain parts of the of this US economy and with their also some of their trading partners. So I'm anticipating that we are going to see some kind of a violent serious volatility, you know, in the in the quarters to come ahead. So I I am prepared for that myself. And usually as a speculator, David, my heart beats for as a speculator, when I'm speculating on a drill hole play or when I'm speculating on an outcome, if I think a project's going to be taken over, I'm speculating on the outcome, not on this volatility that I'm almost certain is going to happen. And I know my portfolio is going to be impacted on those days, but it doesn't change my conviction of my speculations because I'm speculating on outcomes, not this what I I'm expecting volatility. >> When you say volatility, volatility in what? Stocks? >> Everything. So what happens when you have extreme disruptions, when you have that volatility? two things happen. Order books thin out, volatility increases, and and prices usually ramp up. It's no different when a when a stock is hot and everyone's trying to buy it, people stop selling, the stock races higher. But when it goes down, you know, it's always much easier to get in these things than it is to get out. So with that volatility, you know, we've probably heard the saying, when they raid the house of ill repute, they arrest everyone, even the piano player. It won't matter. You know, eventually, perversely, if interest rates keep climbing and and there becomes serious instability, big money's going to go where, David? A lot of it's going to go to gold, but it's going to go back into government bonds. It's safety. You know, so that's in the short run, not in the long run. >> Before we continue with the video, let's talk about a problem that comes with owning gold. Now, gold has long been treated as a store of value, but the catch is that sitting in a vault, it doesn't pay you anything. So that's where today's sponsor, Monetary Metals, comes in. They offer investors a way to earn a yield on gold paid in physical gold. Through their leasing platform, investors can earn up to around 4% annually with yield paid monthly in ounces rather than dollars. So your holdings are measured in gold itself, not in fiat currency terms. The gold stays your asset throughout, and it can be redeemed at any time. Thousands of investors already earning a monthly yield in gold through Monetary Metals, so visit the link down below, monetary-metals.com/lin, or scan the QR code here on screen to learn more and get started today. >> So as an investor right now, what are the major themes that you're positioned for? Besides volatility, which I'm assuming you're hedging, we can talk about that, but besides that, what are the long positions that you're in, and how are they related to the major themes of today? >> Let us talk about what I think is the most mispriced >> Yes. >> uh >> [clears throat] >> opportunity right now in global stock markets. It's an energy story and it's led by oil and gas. Let me frame it. The oil and gas industry is able to reinvent the wheel and they've done it a few times in a few times in the past 150 years. So, if we go back 150 years to the mid-1870s, we have electricity, the light bulb, uh electric electric motorization, we have steam engines. Then we have the internal combustion engine and just at the right time we find vast quantities of oil so they can make automobiles and airplanes with the internal combustion engine. I'm talking about Spindletop, the discovery of oil under pressure in Texas, Beaumont, Texas in 1901. Fast forward, internal combustion engine takes over the world and becomes important in the World War I, World War II. They find oil in Saudi Arabia 1938. So important was this discovery, David, when they sent the geologist there F they sent um DeGolyer and his team and they reported back and said this is the oil in this region is the single greatest prize in all history. We march forward and as everyone knows, the last 100 years has been built by the convenience of almost always readily available, reasonably priced oil. Now we have war. As we talked about, the oil price in in a bygone era would have went ballistic and everything would have become crazy expensive. Didn't happen even though we had multiple wars in all those sensitive regions with the three biggest producers because the new greatest prize is the total disintermediation of the incumbent energy system. And that is I'm talking about imagine a structure, any structure in the world that has a solar roof, a battery, and a vehicle that operates with electrical energy. So, what is this new greatest prize or this new um hinge of history that the oil and gas industry has come up with? Schlumberger, which is the world's largest oil and gas service provider, they have come out and commercialized direct lithium extraction. This is not well understood by people um that follow commodities, that follow lithium. I've had uh recently a few discussions with very seasoned people in the lithium industry. We're talking about lithium and projects and and then I right away I say, "How familiar are How familiar are you with SLB's progress and their the commercialization of their um technologies for direct lithium extraction?" We're not familiar. Oh my goodness. >> [snorts] >> That's the research. So, people watching this show, if you're interested in a potential 10 or 20 bagger, I could strongly suggest that you go to Schlumberger's website. And they have a couple of very good videos that are very descriptive. 30 minutes of maybe 40 minutes of viewing that'll give you more confidence. Now, this is the world's largest oil and gas service provider. They're working with Rio Tinto, Teck Resources, and Lithium Bank. And why Lithium Bank? Schlumberger It's in Alberta. They've got the largest data set uh for Alberta. They've chosen that, Brian. And very quietly, Lithium Bank has acquired um the all the old infrastructure that's at surface. We're talking about 25 wells, 25 km of pipelines. That's worth some $200 million, which is going to feed into the feasibility study that Schlumberger's working forward right now. And it should create what will be one of the most advanced, lowest uh opex, and lowest capex um lithium projects anywhere in the world. And it's going to be Schlumberger and their team and technologies. What they've done is layered various technologies. And maybe it's not interesting for you, David. Maybe people that glaze over, but I'm saying this is a hinge of history because it's going to enable the lithium market to grow as it should by probably 5x in the next 15 years. What's the holy grail though, David? They produce a lithium product at the wellhead that's already refined. It becomes lithium hydroxide or carbonate for the customer. It does not need to go to China, David. All this refining nonsense you hear about, that is the holy grail. That's what everyone's been trying to do. They've achieved it. So, it's millimeter progress and it's already being commercialized, but it's the nascent phase. Imagine being able to invest in horizontal fracking of oil and gas just as George Mitchell and Devon Energy merged in 2003 back in those days. That's It's early days, but it's a big opportunity. >> You were the founder of Lithium Bank, right? You What What was your thesis there? Why do you believe in lithium? >> That's correct. So, I had Copper Bank and Lithium Bank. And the thesis was cuz I When I wrote my book, David, I signed 20,000 copies. I gave speeches around the world. You name the conference, I spoke there. And I signed 20,000 books the same way. Go copper go. This is when copper was $2 a pound. And for me, it was not a question of if, but when the copper price would go to a normal normalized level reflecting where it had to be to create new production, the projects I bought in Copper Bank would be worth a fortune. That's exactly what's happened. And the second important electric metal was lithium. Lithium is going to continue to grow. It's going to have a keger growth rate of better than 20% for the next 10 years. These are not my numbers. These are not This is like a blended average from various analysts. And where batteries in general are going to go from 1.8 terawatt hours to five in the next about four five years. You don't need to know what that means. It's just basically saying it's going to go 3x. So, it would Those are the two commodities I want to be involved with as someone who understands electrification and the future of energy, copper and lithium. So, yes, I founded those two companies on that basis. And lithium was a future technology. Kind of quirky in the beginning, dealy was not working, but it was the larger land packages that we were able to stake 100% control. And that is what I'm talking about. I'm no longer on the board. I'm not part of management, but I am, I believe, the largest shareholder. So, I am very very conflicted. But I I do these interviews and I'm timely stages because I I believe it's good advice. And I think people can not follow Lithium Bank per se, but follow what Schlumberger has done vis-a-vis Rio Tinto, vis-a-vis Tech Met, and of course, the the little that pico cap in the group, which is Lithium Bank. And why? Why is Schlumberger working with Lithium Bank? There's a reason. So, >> I want to show you two charts here. One is copper and one is lithium. Let's start with copper first. Copper, as you've rightly pointed [snorts] out, extraordinary performance. You were right to be long copper a while ago, and it it it's still under the radar when it comes to mainstream media coverage, even though it's at all-time highs. But I want to show you another chart here. Lithium, not at all-time highs. In fact, big collapse in 2023. Hasn't really recovered to prior levels. Why has there been a divergence of stories? In other words, why has copper been the darling of the commodity sector, and lithium has not. Even though a couple of years ago people had high hopes for both. Yes please. >> Yes, lithium never deserved to be 80,000 a ton. It was pushed there for all kinds of stupid reasons. Never belonged there. It should have stayed at around 20 or 30,000. So, there's I mean people that maybe aren't familiar with this, but there has been some kind of a manipulation price-wise, availability-wise, or the Chinese effectively control the market now. And it was it was in an area where it fell to about 8,000 a ton. Let me put this in graphic terms. Chile traditionally has always been the largest producer of lithium from the salars. Australia vis-a-vis hard rock mining passed uh Chile around 2018-2019, and they were two times more production of lithium came from Australia than did Chile. Not one single operation in Australia was financially viable when the lithium price was at that low level that low level. So, Greenbushes, [snorts] I think, was the exception. The large legacy mine in Australia. So, that told you yet again not uh not if, but when the lithium price would normalize. You know, this is where I call lithium the lithium 3.0 very good market. I don't want to call it a mania. I believe it's possible, but that's that's on our doorstep. And now that it's no longer an opaque market, it's becoming a 2 million ton market. You know, it's it's not like where one operation is going to disrupt the the pricing environment anymore, David. It as the market continues to grow, we're going to be at 3 million tons of demand sort of in the next two or three years. Lithium at that point, at a normalized price, call it 25,000 a ton, becomes like the seventh most important commodity dollar-wise in the world. So, there will become better price discovery. The West has these propensity they want to go away from this from the Chinese market. It is happening. It's happening in real time. So, the demand is going to grow, call it 20% and the pricing, I don't see it going back to something like 10,000, but anything in this world is possible. The world needs $20,000 lithium, not 80,000, not 20. Imagine if the copper price went to right now it's at all-time highs trading around 660 a pound. >> Yeah. >> The The analogy for lithium, it would be like copper going to $40 a pound. It's ridiculous. It pushed for for all the wrong reasons, uh including speculation. So, that is not going to happen, particularly with the more mature market. It was just a very opaque, thinly traded traded by appointment market and the refining part of it was almost exclusively controlled by the Chinese. Have the product and control the batteries. Don't let other people get a get a head start in that business. So, it was They had that ability. That game is over now and we'll see where we are, but once again, I'm speculating on an outcome. >> [clears throat] >> I believe the project that Lithium Bank has is too important and a client of Schlumberger or SLB is going to want to have that project to take it um and produce lithium for years and years in the future. Someone that needs the lithium. So, not necessarily an oil and gas company, could be a technology company, could be a battery company. >> Back uh in 2016, you traveled across the country, actually across the continent in your Tesla and you wrote, I think, a book about it. And um it was a very popular um uh event and um I I think at the time nobody thought it was possible. You did it. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that lithium is mostly used for rechargeable batteries. 90% of the use case is rechargeable batteries. A lot of that is dominated by EVs and the EV story in recent years has fallen out of favor. If you had to go back in 2016 and looked at how uh you and some other people projected where the EV industry was headed compared to actually where it went today. Would anything have surprised you? >> To the upside, David. I don't look at the world's uh small car markets. I look at the world's largest automobile market. I'm talking about China. So, in the world if we're manufacturing 90 million units, China is 1/3 of that. So important is the Chinese market, it's basically it's like having the United States, South Korea, Germany, Italy, Canada, Mexico combined. That that's the same number of of uh manufacturing and and actual people that buy cars every year in China. China is already past the crucible. They went meaning more than 50% of cars sold in China now are EVs or new [snorts] energy vehicles. Did I think that was possible when I was going across America in 2016? Not at that number. No, I thought that would be something more like 2030. They achieved it by 2024, 8 years later. They were not even making cars, David. They took the the OEMs and these incumbent manufacturers who did not re- retool how you should make a car. They with a clumsy way they tried to adjust the you know, the way the old chassis was. You needed to start completely new. That's what the Chinese have done. People should be aware that there are dozens of high-quality, relatively affordable Chinese electric vehicles. And these are the cars that the Chinese economy or the Chinese consumer's buying. In Europe to some lesser extent, there are tariffs and people you know, in America you cannot buy a car like that because of the tariffs. You don't want to buy a car like that, don't buy it. But the rest of the world, they are buying it. So, I would say they exceeded. People like me and other people that I I don't have no crystal ball. You could only sort of guess to where the market's going. But did I think it would happen that fast? No. They reinvented the wheel in that sense. But that's not the driver. The driver for lithium and LFP batteries is going to be from backup battery systems, David. All of these um AI centers and data centers they they cannot take up all the energy grid. So, what they're doing at a frantic pace, where they can, is having wind and solar and storing the energy so that it can work on a 24-hour basis. And batteries, there are going to be countless billions more batteries installed in those applications. And this is where this number comes from. Last year, total 1.8 terawatt hours of batteries, 2030 the forecast five. That forecast could be wrong by a power of magnitude. It still means that the battery market will triple or or two and a half. And the if the CAGR growth rate is about 20 22% for lithium, the rule of 72, this entire lithium market's going to go from where we are at this year, around 2 million tons, it's going to double in the next three and a half four four years. I lose no sleep at night that there's going to be demand for lithium, but it's technology that's going to drive the extraction of lithium. So, we we talked about the the DLE process, particularly SLBs, you get a refined product at the wellhead, it uses 95% less water, it uses 10% of the land area of a of a of a conventional hard rock spodumene mine, it uses less energy, and you get the lithium instantly. You get it the same day, David, as a refined product. So, even if those guys have to continue to do the final millimetrical progress, that is what they want. And that's the future of lithium. >> Can you just talk just talk talk about China for a minute here? Look at this map that I have in front of me. Electric car use by country, like you pointed out, China dominates the EV industry worldwide. Why is that in the West EV sales have been slowing down and in fact declining in some places, whereas in China, I was reading 48 million new electric vehicles and growing 13 to 15% of everybody in China owns an EV. It's crazy. Look at this map. Why does Hूप's divergence matter? >> Yes. Oh, it's very simple. I've I've I've I've I've actually been to China. I've I've driven electric cars in China. I've been all over Europe in electric vehicle and I I don't think many people have the experience I have. I don't care. If you want to drive a Ford 250 diesel, consumers should have choice. What was the mistake? The fatal flaw? They started with the experience. Charging is everywhere in China. Charging is simple. Charging is convenient. Charging is not clumsy where you got to add, you know, it's just plug and play. >> Right. >> In America, it's embarrassing. Tesla now has opened up their charging network, but when they launched electric vehicles in North America, it was embarrassing. You couldn't get a charger or you bought if you got a Jaguar electric car in 2020, it was an epic fail. You hated the experience. You cursed and you sold the car. Same thing happened in Europe. If you were driving around Europe in 2020, 2019, 20 It was It was ridiculous. It was total epic fail. So, they started with a bad user experience. You had bad vehicles. And on top of that, you had a bad user experience. The reason the take up has been so broad is because they started with a convenient, simple to use charging and it was everywhere. And then came the Chinese EVs that were quite affordable. Their their technology A lot of these companies started as as a as a phone company or a television company and with with the help of the Chinese government, very quickly they became car companies. It's a breathtaking what they've done. So, they're still going to lead it. They're leading all these technologies. Lee Iacocca once said, David, he was the man who was the chairman of Chrysler. He said, "In this business, the car business, you either lead, follow, or get out of the way." And we have not done that. They They're going bankrupt, the right to billions and billions of write-downs, the European car manufacturers. They don't have a product that people are going to buy, and certainly not in China. China, which is the world's largest car market, they don't buy their cars anymore, and that is why Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes they're all having these massive write-downs, and for the first time ever they're closing legacy factories in Germany, augmented by very high energy prices because of their stupid energy policy. >> Copper now, all-time highs. Some say, and I've heard this, copper is a puppet of the AI build-out story. Is there more to that, or is that it? >> The largest trend in the history of man is the ascent of man. When I wrote my book, uh now, I took electrical studies. I've been following this for over 30 years, and I at the time, and I continue to follow what was going on in China. China had the state the same installed electrical base as the United States around 2014, and they just clock kept climbing higher and higher. Why is electrification the most important thing for copper? 75% of all the copper that's fabricated into something is there to generate, transfer, utilize, and now store the electrical energy. That grew very consistently, 3% going back to 1900. Meanwhile, for for final energy usage, we've went from 20% to about 22 23% now in the West. China in the last 10 years has went from 10% to 30. Now, that might sound like a small number, but boy, going that extra 10% this is what we're talking about how they've electrified their economy. This is only possible with copper and aluminum. This trend will continue. China will be 50 5 0% of final energy usage will be electrification around 2040. And now the West is it's going to go parabolic. We in the next six or seven years will be around 30% and and around who knows what's going to happen in the 20 years after that, but we too are going to go to 40 and 50% of final energy usage electrification. We need a ton like unbelievable amounts of copper. We do not have that copper. We're not going to have that copper. We are going to do it with aluminum and copper. So at times the copper is very expensive. And in fact not even available. We'll use copper for the sophisticated you must use copper applications, windings, um thick cables when you're going from alternating current to direct current when you're storing it when a battery. And things like that. On the stupid applications not as energy efficient where we have no choice but to use aluminum. So don't listen to people that tell you we're going to run out of copper. We are going to have an insatiable demand of copper for the next 15 20 years. And when there's literally no copper and the price is high nobody wants to pay these high copper prices, David. We as an industry are going to use aluminum. So there's a three and a half to four to one ratio that is biblical at this point. When you see copper prices, I can tell you what the aluminum price is because it has to have that that roughly that ratio three and a half to four to one ratio. So if copper prices are doing well aluminum prices will be doing well. So they will they will work in tandem. Demand climbing but the the price every time you go to the new new all-time high, those that use it the most, the Chinese they're they're careful about that. So higher copper >> Brought up aluminum. >> I'm so glad you brought up aluminum. Not a lot of my guests have. I look at the comments on my channel. A lot of people on my channel in the comments have talked about aluminum. I'm just going to read you a few comments. Hi, electrician of 20 years here. Currently working on construction of a data center in Washington state. We use a lot of aluminum for electrical conductors for feeding switch gear and main feeders to electrical rooms. We're running miles of aluminum for these data centers on top of miles of aluminum cable tray for support of electrical conductors. I have never hear anyone mention a peep about aluminum. Regardless of investment, so um even if so much aluminum is being used as greatly. Anyway, that's one comment. Aluminum, I believe uh aluminum cables copper can only rise so much even though copper has some advantages to aluminum cables. Aluminum is dead cheap. Aluminum here is more important than copper for power transmission lines. So, where's all the demand for copper going to be and will it affect price that much? Okay, yeah, let's talk more about this. I was wondering to myself because copper is in such high demand and going to be in such high demand. This deficit is going to cause prices to skyrocket. As somebody who uses products that use copper like most people do, I'm concerned about copper prices going parabolic like you said because that just means huge input costs for all industries including semiconductor companies, uh electronics companies, construction companies. It's just going to mean massive inflation. >> What's the solution? >> Copper prices Copper prices are going to go higher, David. What I What I'm saying is that when when we get these like all-time highs, people that are um procuring a new project will use more They have to use more aluminum. No one's going to go hand-to-mouth and and you know, they're going to go and buy more aluminum. It's as simple as that. And this will continue. This is always the way. But, let's not be afraid of that because the copper prices can go higher. Industry and the society will absorb it. I go back to the year 2000 when copper was 70 cents a pound, went to $2 a pound, and by 2006 it was $4 a pound. And everyone said, "Oh, we're doomed. No one can pay that. How can How can copper prices go up 7x? You know, society's going to be going to be doomed." It did fit into the new global economy. It was inflation. Everything moved up in price. We do have a loss of spending power in the US dollar. So, it is fair that everything should be repriced. I would argue with you that this the price we have today in the $6.50 range, this is not an inflation-adjusted all-time high. We had copper in 2011 at $4.50. Uh here we are, 15 years later with just look at how much money dollars they printed. You know, if copper in 2011 was $4.50 a pound, maybe today it should be $10 a pound. You know, so I still think there is room for it to climb. Uh we are climbing a wall of worry now, but that's the thing that people that don't have a background in electrical studies don't appreciate just how much aluminum we can use throughout uh circuits. Not for everything. For certain things it must be copper. You cannot substitute. Thick cables and thin cables. Thin cables, they break. We use copper. But when you're having a backup battery system, you're going from alternating current to direct current. That direct current means high amperage. High amperage means thick cables. Cables as thick as your wrist, David. And when you install those cables, this is always always done with copper cuz they take thin thin strands, bind them together, and you have a cable as thick as your arm that bends like this. Ease of installation and and just the amount of amperage that's going through that cable. Aluminum cannot apply. So, those people in those industries, namely the Chinese, they'll use copper and aluminum and a lot more copper when copper prices are low. But they're they're going to work in tandem. >> Copper had a huge The first time that I remember copper having a huge multi-year bull rally moment was in the 2000s when China basically rose out of hibernation to become the world's dominant user of copper to build out everything that they have today. What's different this time about the demand for copper? >> Well, it's the electrification. As I already told you, if we're going to go in the west from 22% of final energy usage to 30, which means there's going to be more trucks and more cars and things that can be electrified. Not going to be helicopters or planes, but the other stuff. You know, the the ascent of man, people are wealthier around the world. There was extreme poverty in the 70s and 80s. So there there are there are more people that have basic sustenance now, but that extra kicker is going to be going from 22% to 30% of final energy usage, which will give you an extra percentage point, let's say in demand. And now when you look at data centers, it's going to be done with aluminum and copper. So, but that that's another little I wouldn't even say it's a percentage point. I think people put a little too much, you know, future demand and demand in these AI these data centers. It's it's really more about the energy overall energy usage. That's where you're going to have a real implication. And so, the demand [clears throat] of copper is going to keep clipping away 3-4%, you know, all the way through the next 10 years. How do you play it though? How are people playing copper? I I made my bet, you know, 10 years ago where I mean, things are now way higher. So, if I make that that kind of return, am I rushing in to buy the next copper thing now that copper is at an all-time high? Usually, you know, I'm waiting for some kind of a crisis. So, what am I doing, David? I'm investing or speculating in drill hole plays. Not a lot of money. Not a lot of money, but I'm speculating on the outcome. If they discover copper, it's going to be very good for me. So, super copper, they're drilling in Chile at 1,000 m. They're drilling right now. Looks interesting. And when they're done, they got another project. They're going to start drilling at the end of the year. So, I own that, and I think it's it for me it's a good speculation. Do I care if the copper price collapses a dollar a pound and everyone's panic in the streets? No. Cuz I'm speculating on the outcome. If they discover a good a big hit of copper, that stock's going to go from the bottom left to the upper right of your screen. If they miss totally, guess what? Money goes to money heaven. I accept that. Those are the kind of speculations I'm doing right now. >> Johnny, final question. What do you think are the most common misconceptions about commodity investing right now that you've encountered? >> De Tocqueville had a saying, and he said, "The The The more progress you make, the more dissatisfied you are with the rate of that progress." So, what does that mean? We had the gold price go from 2,500 to 40 to go 5,000, blast it off. Silver goes to 120. Everyone's cheering and cheering. That's never going to last forever. You got a lot of tourists at that trade. But, as the price could slows down, you know, copper, or sorry, gold went to 4,000, silver went to 60. And all summer, people were crying in their beer, David. We had a bear market. Imagine if you told people 2 years ago, "I'm going to give you $4,000 gold, and I'm going to give you $60 silver." Remember when silver was 30 bucks? All All-time high was 50. And it's going to stay there for 2 3 years, not moving. Could you imagine the the the bullions, the the effervescence? It would be like PDAC, would be the champagne would be flowing at every booth. And that's exactly what we got. So, I'll say that saying again. This is De Tocqueville. "The more progress you see, the more dissatisfied you are with the rate of that progress." I'm talking about psychology, David. Mitigate your expectations. When a bull market market is given to you, when a stock goes, you know, when you you waited all this time, take money off the table. It never lasts forever, you know? And I think that's one of the very particularly for those that speculate in junior mining. Psychology is a very important factor. Greed happens overnight, but that fear as we know you've lived through a couple bear markets. Boy, that fear just goes on and on and on and on, you know? Times are good because of this continued de-dollarization trend, gold is climbing higher. Silver's going to follow it. Maybe a 50 to 1 ratio I think is fair. Could be 40 to 1 at times. So, for us to see $8,000 gold, I that's that's in the tea leaves already. And if you have a 40 or 50 to 1 ratio, to see something $150 or $200 silver, I'm expecting that. I'm speculating that way. But not without a lot of bumps along the way. You know? So, have liquidity. Volatility is going to going to meet everyone simply because of this untenable debt levels. Overall stock markets should correct 20%. It would be healthy. If they correct 30%, that tells you something very very crazy is happening in the world and there's enough crazy going on that something like that should happen. But if you're speculating, speculate on the outcome. And there's a final thing, the next hinge of history has already occurred. Never invest in the story on page one. That's the efficient market. Invest in the story on page 16 and at the page one. Schlumberger, SLB, their solution by layering all series of technologies for DLE, refined product at the wellhead, they reinvented the wheel. And that's going to help lithium bank in I cannot underline it enough. Let's see how that plays out in the next months. >> Johnny, excellent talk. That was a really good. Really appreciate that. Where can we follow you? >> Twitter, Gianni Kov. We're posting certain things over there and I'll put a couple links to some of these interviews I was talking about some of the people explaining, you know, people big oil guys talking about what they think where we are, not where we're going. They've already already done it. So now what does it look like? And that will be the starter for anyone that wants to do some due diligence on what I just talked about. >> All right, we'll put the links down below. So please do follow Gianni on social media. Thank you so much Gianni. See you again soon. Take care for now. >> You're holiday. >> Thank you for watching. Please do like and subscribe. Follow Gianni links down below.